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Subscribe to RSSWave after wave of Mexican drug and immigrant smugglers are crossing into the U.S., passing through the Arizona border where nearby ranchers say they feel unprotected by their own government. NBC's Mark Potter reports.
By Mark Potter, NBC News correspondent
ARIVACA, Ariz. -- Just before nightfall, 73-year-old rancher Jim Chilton hikes quickly up and down the hills on his rugged cattle-grazing land south of Tucson, escorting two U.S. Border Patrol agents.
He wants to show them the disturbing discovery he made earlier in the day: a drug-smugglers' camp on his private property. Stacked together under a stand of trees are blankets, jackets, food, water, binoculars and bales of marijuana from Mexico wrapped in burlap. The smugglers, themselves, are nowhere in sight and are believed to have fled the area, which is about 10 miles north of the Mexican border.
Rancher Jim Chilton shows what's left of a drug smugglers camp on his ranch.
"The druggers outrageously use my land at will," said Chilton, who frequently finds evidence of smugglers on his land -- well-worn trails, cut fences, discarded water bottles, clothing and shoes. His home has been burglarized twice and he is constantly on the lookout for armed smuggling groups while he and his employees round up cows on his remote land.
"Can you imagine riding your horse through here on your own land and running into a guy with an AK-47 and 20 or 30 guys behind him dressed in camouflage and carrying drugs?," he asked.
Hidden cameras in southern Arizona captured footage of armed drug smugglers in 2012.
Like living ‘in a no-man’s land’
The land where Chilton raises his cattle covers 50,000 acres south of the small town of Arivaca, Ariz. About five miles of his property runs along the international border, where all that separates Mexico from the United States in most areas there is a four-strand barbed-wire fence. Chilton owns some of the land outright, but leases most it from the state and federal governments for cattle grazing.
Mark Potter / NBC News
Ranchers Jim and Sue Chilton in Arivaca, Ariz., say drug smugglers use their land frequently, and their home has been burglarized twice.
He and his wife, Sue Chilton, complain they feel caught in the middle between the Mexican drug and immigrant smugglers and the United States Border Patrol, which the Chiltons and other ranchers accuse of concentrating most of its patrols and checkpoints miles north of the border, far beyond where the ranchers live and work.
"It's like living in a no-man's land. The Border Patrol doesn't really protect us, they try to arrest people north of us," said Chilton. "I think the druggers should be stopped at the United States border. They shouldn't be allowed into this country. The Border Patrol should secure the border at the border."
Ranchers Jim and Sue Chilton live on the U.S.-Mexico border where drug smugglers constantly walk across their property.
Jeffrey Self, who heads the U.S. Customs and Border Protection joint field command in Arizona, said it is not fair to characterize the area as a "no-man's land." He conceded, though, that Arizona ranchers are correct when they report Mexican drug and immigrant smugglers crossing their land.
"Yes, there is traffic out on those ranch lands. Communities continue to be impacted to a certain extent,” he said. “But you can't discount the fact that gains have been made over the course of the last few years.”
Jeffrey Self, head of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection joint field command in Arizona, says a lot of gains have been made at border protection, but acknowledges more is needed.
With 5,500 Border Patrol agents assigned to Arizona, double the amount stationed there in 2004, Self argued that much more territory is being patrolled now than in the past. And he said daily surveillance flights and advances in camera and sensor technology have also helped dramatically reduce the number of illegal border crossings.
"If you look back to 2000…there were 610,000 aliens arrested in Arizona,’ Self said. “Just look at last year, we came in at 119,000."
Over the past decade, however, there has been a dramatic rise in the amount of illegal drugs smuggled from Mexico into Arizona. The Border Patrol there seized about one million pounds of marijuana during each of the last several years -- about four times the amount seized in 2000. Other illicit drugs, such as heroin and meth, are also entering Arizona in greater quantities than ever before.
‘He came out screaming’
For neighboring rancher David Beckham the problem is even more severe. Earlier this year he made the painful decision to move himself, his wife and three boys away from their ranch, which sits about 12 miles north of the Mexican border.
Arizona rancher David Beckham says drug smugglers crossing his land forced him to move his family.
"It's not safe, it’s not safe for my kids," he said. The Beckhams have had numerous run-ins on their land with Mexican smugglers.
Their cattle fences are frequently cut and paths heading north from Mexico cross their property. Beckham says a smuggler even fired shots at him while he walked his land with a U.S. Border Patrol agent. Several illegal border crossers have also approached his house at night--one even reaching his hand into their bathroom window.
"Several years ago, one of my children was taking a shower and had a gentleman reach into the shower while he was in there, and he came out screaming, absolutely refusing to take a shower for the next couple months."
The Beckhams, like the Chiltons, scoff at the Obama administration’s claims the U.S.-Mexican border is safer than ever.
"It's a joke, they can believe what they want. They can live in candy land," said Beckham. "You can't have a safe and secure country without a safe and secure border, and we don't have it. We don't."
Sue Chilton says she believes a U.S. government decision to not to heavily patrol right along the border is, in effect, creating a free-access zone for Mexican smugglers.
"We have, without any reason or logic to it, decided to cede as much as 15 or 20 miles of the United States to the cartels, and we live in that section that has been ceded," she said. "They have lookouts in the mountains within a mile of our house."
Several advocacy groups concerned about border security have placed motion-activated hidden cameras near the Chilton's ranch and elsewhere in southern Arizona. Their videos, many of them shot recently, confirm the ranchers' complaints, revealing wave after wave of drug and immigrant smuggling groups, sometimes heavily armed, crossing U.S. land miles north of the Mexican border.
"First, it's a threat to our life," said Chilton. "Second, it's a threat to our livelihood."
Border Patrol: agents more thorough than ever
As to the complaint the Border Patrol places most of its patrols and checkpoints miles north of the border fence, Jeffrey Self of the Customs and Border Protection’s joint field command in Arizona said agents are assigned where they will be most effective in apprehending smugglers and illegal immigrants.
"I would get less out of putting those agents on the line than having them operate those checkpoints," He said.
Still, many agents do patrol the border fence, he said, and are "in and around those ranchers every day, 365 days a year." Serious problems stemming from distance and budgets, however, do hamper some daily Border Patrol operations. Agents stationed in Tucson have to drive as many as two hours a day just to reach parts of the remote and rugged border. And a spokesperson confirmed that a Border Patrol FOB (Forward Operating Base), built west of the Chilton ranch, is currently unmanned because there isn't enough money to pay agents' overtime fees. The FOB was built to house agents day and night right at the border near Sasabe, Ariz., and to reduce the current drive times.
Nevertheless, Self said, his agents are doing a better, more thorough job than ever.
"Is there still traffic coming across [ranchers’] property? Absolutely. Do we want them to feel safe in their homes? Absolutely. We're going to work toward that effort."
Drug smugglers move through Arizona in this footage captured by hidden cameras in 2012.
Ranchers describe smugglers as ‘desperate’
The Chiltons, Beckhams and other ranchers in southern Arizona give high marks to the Border Patrol agents, themselves, respecting the dangerous work they do and appreciating their willingness to help property owners in need.
The complaint they have is with where those agents are assigned. The ranchers also believe, as do many of the agents, themselves, that smugglers crossing the border now are more heavily armed and confrontational than in years past.
"They seem to be a lot more desperate. The people coming across now are different, they are not friendly," said Beckham.
Surveying her ranchland, Sue Chilton described what happens when smugglers walk close to their house at night: "We turn out the lights, Jim gets his guns and we sit somewhere in the dark in the middle of the house where we are not close to our window and wait for the action to be finished."
Her husband, Jim, who comes from several generations of ranchers, said he has never seen the border as dangerous as it is now.
"It's outrageous. I'm a citizen of the United States. I expect to be protected like everybody else," he said. "The border is not secure, it is worse than it's ever been."
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Sounds like some law abiding gun toting Americans should take it into their own hands. Our beloved and terrible welfare government has no money to protect the border. It is all going to buy future votes.
They are scratching their heads now trying to figure out how to pay for the crap they already said they would do.
Ain't gots no more money. Can't afford no border patrol.
I have an idea. Let's just post Drug Free Zone & Gun Free Zone signs on his property along the border. That will keep the Liberals happy. But of course, it will have to be bilingual.
Interesting that the rancher was only concerned about his property value and not the security of the US as a whole nation.
Instead of sending our troops everywhere else, why can't we have them patrol our own borders? Plus I'd like to see fences that are high volt electrical at random times, two rows with landmines between.
I'm only worried about my property. Worrying about the whole damn country is pointless anyway. You can't change it, but you can change what happens on your own property....especially with lots and lots of guns and bullets!
Nice photo of the residents that had the Cartels drugs taken away. Please don't let any drug dealers or Cartel folks see this article. There should be some concern for this rancher's family safety.
I really like that idea Russ!
Time to take some money from the bloated defense budget & put it towards the Mexican invasion.
Why shouldn't he be concerned about his own property and the safety of his family, first? What would help him would help all of us.
Sally in Chicago.....seriously?? He should ignore his own safety and property for security of the WHOLE usa??? Which planet are you from?? Our own congressmen care less then he does....
I suggest that all well-armed NRA supporters be lined up on the border facing south. Everybody wins.
I have a direct descendent who fought and died at the Alamo. One of the 18. It is in my blood so I would surely lend my services to clean up the trash.
A "direct descendent"?.. JD, you must then be over 250 years old.! (not surprised..)
All sound ideas concerning defending our border and private property, but:
Remember folks:
They just want better lives for their families!
And protecting our border is racist!
Comedy gold, Jerry. Comedy gold.
But, it's nice to dream that our returning troops could be assigned to border patrol. That our drones could be used to blast smugglers out of the sand. Imagine the volunteers that would love to fly those drones!
Comon folks.....sheeesh......Mrs./Ms. Napolitano has stated over and over and over:
Don't you believe ANYONE in this administration ? ("Fast and Furious", "Benghazi", "Obama campaign promises", DOJ, Secretary of State, Secretary of Treasury, Head Federal Reserve.....on and on and on)
Time to legalize drugs! More security will not solve this problem, when will people realize more of the same won't work?
The current administration supports immigration whether people enter our land legally or illegally due to some liberalized notions of reforming an antiquated system. At taxpayer expense we allow these people to just stay here and make a home, never reaching for citizenship, while dropping babies and receiving care & support.
The idea seems to support our country being infiltrated by armed people who waltz across the border to conduct illegal activities which pose as a THREAT to our safety. They would rather minimize the situation and laugh it off as some 'localized situation' and how the fed has taken steps to secure our border, blah, blah but then we hear of stories like these.
This is ludicrous and needs to be stopped with an iron fist. Perhaps it will be up to the citizens themselves to start taking a stand since they can't rely on anyone else to do jack @!$%# to help them!
This guy Self sounds like most the other witless high echelon in the Obama administration that hide their heads in the sand in D.C. He sounds about as far removed from reality as he is from the border! I live 6 blocks from the border fence in SE AZ in Cochise County. I have illegals passing through the alleys behind my house every night. The only thing keeping them out of my yard is 3 large dogs that do not take very kindly to illegal neighbors from south of the border as they stroll the alleys at night. Many of my neighbors have been burglarized and I myself have been the victim of a home invasion by armed illegals. I have had to arm myself in order to protect my home and family. Before our friendly visitors slapped me around in my own home, my wife would never allow firearms in our house. Now she has no problem with them. My daughter is a single mother with two children aged 13 and two, and lives closer to the border than I do. She says that when she steps outside at night, many times she sees illegals running through her apartment complex to avoid the Border Patrol. She and I recently took a concealed weapons course together. To many of the Obamaites that swallow the drivel that comes out of the mouths the current administration, especially Janet (do nothing) Napolitano and Eric Holder, you obviously do not live anywhere near the U.S./Mexico border or are a hopeless leftist liberal who would believe anything Obama and his people say! The border is nowhere near as safe as they would have you believe. The Mexican border along the U.S. has more holes in it than my wife's favorite pasta drainer! I am not a reckless gun toting right wing nut. I consider myself a responsible gun owner that has received the required training both in handling a weapon and the legal aspects involved. I do however, do not intend to let myself or my wife become a victim again. I simply want the means to protect my family, as current laws in this country no longer give me the right to protect my property.
To those reading here that do not believe what I or others that live down here say, I challenge you to come down to the border, spend some time here, and get your eyes opened to the reality of thingsas they really are!
I do not care who is our president anymore but I do care about our borders and how they are not being protected.
This man ( and many more like him) have video proof of illegals on there land and on top of the fact that they themselves are not US citizens they are carrying drugs yet our government just says we doing better at stopping these illegals so don't bother us with your problems. that's what it sounds like to me at least.
I'm not a rich person by any means but if this man who lives on the border or any other person in the same spot wants my help I would gladly offer it, just supply me with the means to help you and I'm there.
Our borders and all the US citizens that live on them deserve the full protection of the US government. The border patrol is not doing there job properly if we have proof like this man has and that should make every US citizen pissed off to say the least.
Maybe some day very soon the government will do something that they should for once and protect our borders and all the people who live there, stop these illegals and there drug carrying mules.
If the government cannot afford to do there jobs properly then allow citizens to do the job on the border if they so choose, make the laws so that our citizens are protected if they shoot these invaders and Mexico can come pick up there citizens after we have dealt with them.
Why is it when we have a huge problem like this with an easy answer to correct it the government just doesn't listen? Are we the american people demanding something that's outside our laws already on the books?
Its not Obama's fault, its all the past presidents who didn't do there jobs the way they were suppose to do them and now were stuck with what they all created. Tell me there isn't money being paid to our government to look the other way? Follow the money and we'd have the answers we all seek.
Arizona is a proud red state that believes in the second amendment. I suggest that they arm and protect themselves. Hell... they want the government to do everything for them?
I forgot to add above that it is time repeal the Posse Comitus Act and put our regular active duty military on the border full time helping the Border Patrol to secure our borders. the politicians in Mexico would scream bloody murder. But I personally don't care any more! Enough is enough.
Gillanator, many of us already are! We can't trust the DHS to do it properly.
saw this item on the news tonight that really got me. Item was about drugs coming over the Mexican border. Consider the benefits of closing all overseas military bases and moving all those military to a widened border - say 5 miles wide. Place all the infrastructure Housing, repair shops etc. along the first mile, then with all the tanks we have line them up say 1000 feet apart to completely cover the border, then in front of them a mine field about a mile deep then right up to the actual border warning signs in every language. What would we accomplish? The Navy has more than enough warships to interdict water born drugs and illegal aliens on both the Gulf and the Pacific Ocean.
1. the DOD actually becomes a DEFENSE department
2. we stop cold the illegal alien problem
3. we stop cold the drug problem
4. we would then be able to reduce the number of prisons
5. we would increase the number of jobs for Americans
6. we would reduce the defense budget significantly
7. we would have an opportunity to pay down the debt
8. we would be able to balance the budget
9. we would not have to raid SS and cut Medicare
10 our MIC could sell weapons of war to all those nations we have been supporting by providing them their "defense".
11. this would place us an a competitive level playing field in balance of trade.
With all of the above combined savings and increased US economic health we are looking at perhaps $3-$4 Trillion ANNUALLY! Or national debt gone in 10-12 years which provides us with an additional $1Trillion in revenue due to no interest payments on the debt.
Will this ever happen? Not until we the people get up off our dead asses and force congress into the 21st century.
Shameful that a bunch of greasy mexican criminals can terrorize good American families at will and on their own land. Haven't we got a supply of landmines somewhere? Forget building a wall, that lets them live. As long as the illegals have some sway, they'll make sure this problem is never addressed.
"If you look back to 2000…there were 610,000 aliens arrested in Arizona,’ Self said. “Just look at last year, we came in at 119,000." Is that supposed to be progress?
So, they're still catching 326 per day...how many are getting through? Thousands per day?
Close down every foreign military base and bring the boys and girls back home to work the border. May as well invest in America than in the muslim third world...or Britain, Germany or Japan for that matter, and we'll certainly be safer.
The borders are much safer. No one said they were completely safe. This area wasn't hit as hard before because the open range free of border patrol was much larger. As it shrinks, the criminals are compressed into much smaller crossing points and congestions in those areas. Bring on the drones and legalize marijuana and most of that traffic goes away.
So why isn't Arizona utilizing their national guardsmen to help these troubled areas until the border patrol or drug laws are changed to help the landowners?
The right-wing wants to shrink the size of our government with less government involvement in everything. So good luck in getting more security at the border. The Chief of the NRA doesn't want to pay for more armed security either, but he's demanding we supply it in all of the nation's schools. Arizona, sorry to say, you're on your own -- after all, that what your Tea Party wants of you. Turn the border into an unregulated mob rule siege mentality, and that'll make them happy.
And a word to the wise: If you need assault rifles or semi-autos to guard your home ...you need to move.
rradiko: Really? Dude, you've got to get off the pipe, if you catch my meaning. By your logic anyone who lives in the inner city that has bars on their windows should move, too, correct?
The ranchers should invite Janet to spend a couple of nights on their ranches. Maybe a few close up encounters with an AK47 might get her attention.
Rradiko, it's always easy to tell who does not live anywhere near the border and has no clue of what really goes on down here. All they have to do is read what people like you write!
Mike, sorry to disagree but the borders are in fact not any safer. They are worse. The drug cartels are pushing harder all the time, but the Obama administration does not have the fortitude to push back with the needed strength and firepower. As to the National Guard, we are in fact utilizing them to the extent that current law allows. The Arizona National Guard is not that big and is not equipped or trained for what needs to be done. that is why we need regular troops on the border.
No, really, they are not worse. They are more congested into smaller crossing areas. The Obama administration has more than doubled the agents so I wonder what your take on the previous administrations actions were? Doubing the agents may have not been enough to secure every inch of the border, but then again, had the adminsitration completely manned it and adsorbed the cost into the budget, he would have also taken a hit because the deficit grew to 17trillion instead of 16.
Rradiko, I do not own an assault rifle. I do not need one. In fact for use inside a house it is counter productive. I own a Kel-Tec PS9 9mm pistol instead! Much better in close quarters. And you are wrong. I don't need to move. They need to stay out! If they enter my house while I am there, I can consider myself to be in perceived immediate danger and in fear of great bodily injury. They I'll give them one chance to leave and if they do not, then someone else will carry them out.
Two simple actions would stop 90% of this problem in my opinion.
1. Legalize marijuana. That will happen eventually and inevitably, but it could happen quickly were it not for opposition from the right, the same people complaining about the smuggling.
2. Strictly enforce the laws against hiring "illegals". That's not going to happen soon either because guess who hires them - big agriculture, big sweatshops, and wealthy people who want to pay below minimum wages to have their gardens taken care of and their laundry done, in short mostly Republicans. That's why Reagan granted amnesty and Bush wanted to.
Mike, my perception of safety is based on what I see with my own eyes and where I live. If you lived where I do you might have a different view. Yes, the number of agents has increased. The problem is that their rules of engagement are more deliberately restrictive than at any previous time. The previous administration was no different Bush and his people kept their heads buried in the sand just as much as the current ones do. The fact is that only the name of the party in charged has changed. Useless is still useless!
Exactly. A couple of AR-15s with collapsible stocks would serve the Chiltons and Beckhams well and would take care of these illegal trash nicely for them.
Perhaps they should call their Federal Government hating Republican Governor Jan Brewer. These NRA republican ranchers always complain about the federal government and that it "should be drown in a bathtub" but of course if things don't go their way they're also the first to bitch, complain and then blame the federal government for all their troubles.
This is so typical of most Republicans these days, they always whining like a bunch of school children about "the government should help ME" but "I don't want to pay ANY taxes that support anything or anybody but ME, ME, ME"............... The hypocrisy and selfish un-American behavior of Republicans isn't just sickening It's absolutely stunning.
Or they could call Wayne La Pierre; I'm sure he'll stop by with his gold plated AR-16 to give them a hand............ Or not.
As the President said recently, dealing with the difference in Federal and State "pot" laws is not a priority of his administration, and evidently this extends to closing our border to "pot mules" whether armed with "fast and furious" weapons or not.
Perhaps the President is letting his "personal" experience....cloud....his judgement!
Get it over with Mr. President...militarize the border...stop the inflow of pot....the Arizona ranchers will thank you...the California Golden Triangle will thank you....and most of Oregon will thank you!
Illegal immigrants on the other hand...may not thank you....but then you are already reelected!
Big AL, the hypocrisy is you trying to shift blame onto the ranchers, who are the victims here, and trying to throw your own political views into this. This has nothing to do with the NRA except in your imagination. These ranchers are honest people who just trying to make living here. This is not about Republicans or Democrats. It is about people only. If you are incapable of seeing this then your head is either buried in the sand like most leftist liberals, or it is someplace else and you need to remove it!
Rontron, several ranchers that I know of already did invite her and Holder both. They politely declined in some cases and flat out refused in others! And some, they did not bother to answer at all.
Hello folks, doesn't Arizona have a law, I believe it is known locally as SB1070 or Senate Bill 1070, which is aimed at discouraging illegal immigrants from entering or remaining in the state. It expanded the powers of state police officers to ask about the immigration status of anyone they stop, and to hold those suspected of being illegal immigrants.
I think this is not only a good law but one that has been long overdue and should be enforced rigorously, don’t you?
But in order for it to be truly legal and moral it can only be enforced by Native American Indians.
Let's see, the Republicans want less government and to lower costs. That then means that those resources we have have to be used as cost effectively as possible. That's what the border patrol is doing. I suggest you folk in Arizona who have an issue with this contact your state officials and see what you can legally do to stop the traffic. Or, contact your local representative and get them to bring home the troops from Afghanistan and other points to the east and have them guard the border in these desolate areas. There's a price for everything in life. Less government means more private action, plain and simple.
The failure of our government to protect American citizens, American national borders, and to enforce its immigration laws is DESPICABLE!
A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERABLE!
the main thing that people aren't catching is that this is private property, i don't get to dictate to the local police that they station an officer on my front porch, or have the city install and fund a new fence for my yard. where is all that personal responsibility everyone is always talking about? these ranchers are no different than you and i, they need to protect their own and stop asking for hand outs.
This is a foreign invasion, and it is within the province of the federal government to prevent a foreign invasion--- irrespective of whether it occurs on public or private property. Additionally, this is criminal trespass on private property (not to mention the other inumerable acts of lawbreaking)--criminal activity that is certainly within the purview of law enforcement to address, remedy, and, indeed, prevent.
Theo-3270314
There you have it, the #1 priority to being from "the left" dope use....pathetic
Justoneguy,
I am a conservative and have never voted for a democrat in my life. I have been of legal voting age for over 30 years and I support the legalization of pot. I smoked it back in my high school days and then I spent 24 years in the military. I now own my own company and I still support the legalization of it because it is far less worse than booze. I have known a lot of folks that booze has either killed or screwed up their lives and or careers but I have never known anyone where pot did the same. Do I still smoke it? No because I am past that stage in my life but I do not believe anyone should have a criminal record for it either. God gave us this plant and man invented alcohol.
Where is the public outrage similar to students being shot in their school, firefighters being shot at while trying to put out a fire? A 73 yr old man can’t live in peace, a little boy can’t take a shower in his own home without AK-47’s, drugs and illegal aliens yet Obama allows and encourages illegal aliens crossing our borders and even provides them with weapons!!! The DOJ lied and tried to cover up Fast and Furious and Obama assisted by sealing the records! SHAME on this administration!! The hypocrisy is astounding!
inmissouri,
LANDmines ? Carnage Asada, extra Guac.
Sounds like the gay Sheriff Baboon has been remiss in dealing with his county's Border Security issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qld4Tr4LKgA
Bottom line, can I be bottom line, even the poor counties of the world are better secured than the US..
Here is an idea. Arizona should allow deadly force to be used without warning against trespassers. Then, just cap em, tag em, and bag em, throw em back across the fence.
AMERICA!!!!!!!!
Grow a backbone...please!
Pretty much what I was thinking. The Federal is too busy ARMING the drug lords to be concerned with protecting us from them.
Maybe he should wonder how these Mexican Drug Cartels came into possession of these weapons. Maybe they were so easy to obtain because of the number of weapons produced in the US. Maybe they were so easy to obtain because of the easy accessibility to weapons in the US. Maybe they have them because it is so easy to buy guns with no background checks or even IDs at gun shows.
I'm sure these NRA-type Pro-Gun folks selling assault weapons at these gun shows would not sell a weapon to anyone they thought might pass it along to a drug cartel. /s/
I am pro-2nd amendment, but I understand that there ARE limits to your Freedom of Speech and Religion as guaranteed in the 1st amendment. I also understand there should be limits of the types and numbers of guns protected in the 2nd.
The democrats have a vested interest in keeping the border open. They don't want to keep out any future dem. voters. Also, all those drugs they're hauling in help to keep current dem. voters stoned, happy and dependent on a liberal government.
Damn, danp, you said exactly what I was going to say (you're a smart guy)! Well, I'll just remark that I hope all of you liberals aren't too upset by the photo of the rancher carrying one of those evil "guns".
If I remember correctly, Arizona TRIED to do something about ILLEGALS and BOZO and his minions filed a law suit AGAINST Arizona!!! THE...THE #1 job of the federal gov. is to protect US, the citizens of the U.S. against foriegn AND domestic enemies!! Sooooo, maybe bozo will resign??? NOT!!
I forgot. Reagan made the mistake of BELIEVING the democRATS by making the deal (with the devil) of legalizing the ones here ONLY if they would secure the border. The second part (the promise) DIDNT happen. Just another democRAT lie!!!
It is convienient that this was saved for after the election. msnbc covered up the dates in the hidden camera videos to make it look like this was after the election.
Catch one of the armed illegals and trace the weapon to see if it is one of the Fast and Furious Obama/Holder guns. I bet you that it is.
I will vollenteer to take up a position on a hilltop and use a night scope to stop as many of these insurgents as I can. every night.
the Border Patrol Is ether underfunded, undermanned, totally, incompetent, on the take or all of these. How many do the catch in one night? Looks like the invasion is in the thousands a night.
This looks like the Ho chi men trail with out the plant cover. Area already defoliated, no need for agent orange.
this can be stopped in one week but has gone on for years. Some body on the take.
Declare war on imported drugs. Think this has been done. Put a Gun ship on station and plow the trail on the US side. One night and the war is over. Put Petraeus in charge. He needs a new job. No need to waist his talent. Read ALL IN Funny more then one meaning now.
Hello folks, doesn't Arizona have a law, I believe it is known locally as SB1070 or Senate Bill 1070, which is aimed at discouraging illegal immigrants from entering or remaining in the state. It expanded the powers of state police officers to ask about the immigration status of anyone they stop, and to hold those suspected of being illegal immigrants.
I think this is not only a good law but one that has been long overdue and should be enforced rigorously around our entire country, don’t you?
But in order for it to be truly legal and moral it can only be enforced by Native American Indians.
***************************MORE UNEDUCATED POSTS***************************************
http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress
Typical Demoncrap Deflection of Blame Game. The Security of the US is President Obama's Responsibility, not some individual rancher.
And why should we even listen to anything you say Second Worst Run State in the Nation; everyone listens to success NOT repeated failures:
http://247wallst.com/2011/11/28/best-and-worst-run-states-in-america-an-analysis-of-all-50/
AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA'S US BORDER POLICIES OF APRIL 2009 AND AUGUST 2009 OF, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".
WHAT PART OF AGAINST US LAWS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND.
Solution Really Must dump Sally in Chicago, inmissouri, RussH, nativefox, MSNBCMFE,gillanator, Mike-424215, rradiko, BigAl Las Vegas, JoeCal, on the US Southern Border Unarmed, maybe they can talk the Illegal Aliens to Death.
Federal Spending:
60% Entitlements
20% Defense
13% Discretionary Spending
7% Interest (like interest on Loans from China)
WHERE DO YOU THINK THE US BORDER SECURITY FUNDS COME FROM. More proof how Uneducated YOU are and those that voted for your Uneducated posts (dumbing down of US).
Ever since the previous Reduction In Forces (RIFs) of the US Military the State's National Guard have been Federalized and Deployed to President Obama's, "Right War Afghanistan". To make matters even worse, President Obama as US Military Commander In Chief previously Ordered the Reduction In Forces (RIF) of 90,000 US Military Personnel to be thrown on Unemployment further straining the Veteran's Affairs, and the Unemployment of 108,000 US Civilians previously employed by the US Military, this decreased the previous 1% of US Citizens currently Serving in the US Military, while more than 92% of US Citizens NEVER Served in the US Military.
Credit were Credit is DUE. It was Presient Bush (43) that Ordered the Doubling of the US Border Agents and had this Budgeted for.\
Today's Marijuana is NOT yesterdays Marijuana as today'sMarijuana is cured with Formaldahydeas "Amp"; laced with Chrystal Meth, Cocaine, etc..
Did not work before. And it is the Demoncraps that hire the majority of Illegal Aliens especially at Illegal Alien Harbor States like Bankrupt Illegal Aliens Harbor State of California, like your previous Speaker for All Demoncraps, Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi and her Illegal Alien Housekeepers as well as her conflict of interest in California StarKist (still hires Illegal Aliens).
And get an Education, as the majority of US Fruits and Vegetables do NOT come from the US harvested by Illegal Aliens, especially after the US Court Injunctions to save 20 Species of Endangered Fish that shut down most of California's Fruit and Vegetable Basket.
Nope. Unlike those that do not know. AR-15s, .223 caliber (5.56mm) versus AK-47s, .308 caliber (7.62mm). Originally, the .223 caliber was designed to be fired from a bolt action rifle (reason why the AR-15/M-16/M-4 is prone to jamming, the actual brass cartridge) to kill small varmits; the USAF chose the .223 caliber as easier to train USAF and also to wound not kill so that it takes more combatants off the battlefield to evacuate the wounded (previously protested as against the Geneva Convention). The 7.62mm was originally designed to kill after WWII, as the AK-47's 7.62mm x 39mm or the US Military M-14's 7.62mm x 49mm (900 meters) which was the previous NATO Standard. AK-47 Range 800 meters. AR-15/M-16 Range 350 meters, M-4 Range 250 meters. This is why for the longest time we have been using modified M-14s as M-21s and M-25s as our standard individual weapons instead of M-16s or M-4s (Afghanistan Mountain Warfare, Desert Warfare, etc.), we don't like having to run 400 to 500 meters while getting shot at by AKs (800 meters) just to get within range to return fire from M-16s (350 meters)/M-4s (250 meters).
WHAT PART OF AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA'S POLICIES DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".
And why the f**k should we even listen to you, a FAILURE. Smart people listen to Successful people NOT Failures:
http://247wallst.com/2011/11/28/best-and-worst-run-states-in-america-an-analysis-of-all-50/
You want the answer or just going to spout your Demoncrap NONSENSE (to cover up the President Obama FAILURES, Failed (Foreign) Policies).
First, the Mexican Government has a Manufacturing License to produce M-16s, M-4s, M-9s, etc. for their Mexican Military.
The Drug Cartels do not like the unreliable M-16s, M-4s, M-9s, etc. and prefer the more reliable and deadly Russian Federation Weapons. Due to President Obama's Failed (Foreign) Policies the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran ships containers (tons) of Russian Federation Weapons, Ammunition and Explosives to South and Central Americas (Hamas Foreign Fighters and Hezbollah), these are then smuggled into Guatemala (Organized MS-13, MS-14, etc.), then to the Drug Cartels of Mexico. The Illegal Aliens as "Drug Mules" to pay for their being human trafficked into the US are NOT only smuggling Drugs they are also smuggling in weapons to the US (Illegal Alien Gangs as the Drug Distributors for the Drug Cartels and the Drug Cartel Enforcers within the US).
Second, you don't understand crap, go read the US Supreme Court Ruling pertaining to the Unconstitutional D.C.Anti Gun Law. How about getting an Education, start by Researching the Current Gun Ownership Laws, the Effectiveness or Ineffectiveness of the previous Assault Weapons Ban*, Federal Firearms Licensing, asking "experts" like US Military Armorers about magazines (small capacity versus large capacity reliability, hint: has something to do with the spring tension). All your post indicates is a Emotive Non Factual Opinionated Feel Good Political Partisan Propaganda that Omama Bird and the Demoncraps regurgitated into your mouth.
*The previous Assault Weapons Ban based on Looks and Appearance, not Function and Substance; exactly like Newsvine Posts, "He looks and sounds like a President".
Oh, I understand the law, I just don't agree with this one and feel it should be changed.
I have to add to Fed Up Boomer:
Twenty years ago I worked for a construction company. They charged $35/hour for labor, but paid their 100 illegal employees $5 to $8--a few were paid more. The company charged over $50/hour for overtime, but paid the illegal employees no more. Some compensation was paid as "gas money" so that the company didn't have to pay payroll taxes. Virtually all the employees used stolen SS numbers. The employees claimed five or ten children on their taxes so that they got "Earned Income Credit," and usually ended up with a profit on "paying taxes." When a worker walked in the door or called to ask about employment, the owner's first question was, "Is he white?" He employed ONLY illegal Mexicans. When I called their status to his attention, he said they were all "fine," or "okay." Then he tried to get me to sign the papers guaranteeing that we had seen documentation of their right to work.
I left the company. But bottom line is that millions such jobs that used to be filled by Americans making living wages are now filled by illegals. And do we pay less for the product or service? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The extra profit accrues to the employers only. This is not a question of Made in China versus Made in the USA. It is not about "staying competitive." It is ONLY about greed. These are the same companies that the Republicans tell us will result in higher unemployment if "small business" has to pay higher taxes. We all know that most small businesses take spurious right-offs and don't pay tax on much of their income, anyway.
Now, when I need something done at my home, the workers are almost always Mexican. Do they charge less? How about $150 for one hour of work this morning? How about $800 (their estimate) to remove a 40-foot line of bushes from my yard? I have to laugh. These guys think that without education, without apprenticeship, without paying taxes, without licenses or paying insurance, they can charge what we used to pay to a licensed, qualified contractor. So they are making surgeon's wages--in cash.
Here is the most important question, and I welcome serious, considered answers. HOW DO WE PUT PRESSURE ON OUR GOVERNMENT TO ENFORCE OUR BORDER AND OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS?
To all the Geography Fails on this webpage:
Q: When you say America, do you actually mean
1. SOUTH America,
2. CENTRAL America,
3. NORTH America, or
4. USA [United States of America] ?
I believe the great majority of the commenters who use "American, 'merkin, 'merkun, America, or 'merka", are too bigoted and mentally underdeveloped to concretely know what they mean when they say ANYthing.
If you respect yourself, do NOT listen to these types of people.
uscg
America has a backbone. It is our elected officials currently running things in DC that lack them!
Ed-NavDoc: there are a few in washington that are fighting for us.Steve King,Grassley,Ted Poe to name a few. I know that the Border Patrol has a law suit against Napolitano for forcing them to NOT do their jobs.And they are threatened by the Obama administration that they will lose their jobs and retirement if they Do their jobs. They ordered to Release those they catch. Those who want to help should check numbersU.S.A. They are backing the border patrol and do a lot to help get laws passed to stop Illegals.And we can Never forget Rob Krentz.The rancher who was murdered along with his dog on his own property. We must keep up the fight for our own Sovereignty! This President will not help!
KRedcorn, very true and well said. I live in SE AZ about 30 miles away from from where Mr Krentz was murdered and knew the man.
David
As I have already said, it violates the Posse Comitus Act that the Democrats vehemently do not want to see rescinded as this would severely affect thier potential voter base!
A person with that much land should be able to afford a highly-charged long electrical fence.
Bullets are cheaper and they don't come back once they are dead!
landmines.
See thru... As the article stated, that rancher does own some of the land outright but leases the majority of it from the federal government.
Also, to you anti-gun people out there, tell this rancher he can't have semi automatic rifles or high capacity magzines while the cartels smuggle drugs armed with fully automatic weapons through his land!
You can't tell an anti-gun person anything. They are too stupid to retain it.
What an absolutely stupid comment. Really? You think that there is no easy way to defeat an electric fence? I would hope that you are just posting for the sake of seeing your own words in print. The rest of us will see that post for what it is - stupidity.
No matter how wealthy, Americans deserve to be protected and should not have to barricade their land to fend off criminals. We are bringing home our troops at long last and many of them will be looking for jobs. Why not hire them to secure our border with Mexico.? I happen to be one of the liberals you all seem to detest, but on issues of law and order and protecting US citizens I favor a hard line. More border patrol properly trained and armed.... no vigilantes.
Maybe Mitt could stand on the border and ask all incoming armed border-crossers to self-deport. Another winning RWNJ policy.
sees through 'rose colored glass': I have 180 acres of DEAD land. Weeds don't grow here. My SS check is $550.00 a month. Would you please loan me enough for an electric fence?
Tumbleweed, please inform the ignorant how many acres it takes to run a cow&calf.
So somebody is looking for the government help. How interesting that it's Arizona. So much for small government. Also - weren't all these guns supposed to keep everybody safe?
If you own all that land..its not the federal governments job just to protect it..hire your own security or complain to your town who you pay RE taxes too.
I don't see the federal government protecting my land from trespassers, criminals or republicans.
People should just abandon the land, lose the value and let the druggers take over. then the government might do something about it. Who wants to be a "buffing" rancher?
Send Lil Wayne down there.
Sees Thru Gloss
Another dumbfounding contribution from "Sees Thru"...obviously, if one single illegal was electrified, the Obama administration would convict the land owner as a lawbreaker....duh.
Typical Liberal response. How about we sell the cartel some more weapons too so they stand a gighting chance against a 73 yr old man?
It's not real safe here in Detroit, either. We have many border patrol folks watching for people sneaking in from Canada, but not enough money to adequately police the city, or what is left of it. Residents - and there are a lot of good, law abiding people here, are left to protect themselves the best they can. Just like the guy in Arizona.
And yet there are still those that see no need to legally possess the so called "evil assault weapons". This is only one clear case why we should be able to own them. Otherwise, the same thing will eventually happen to these ranchers that is currently happening to the minority white farmers in South Africa. But I have a solution. Post your land and when uninvited trespassers appear, shoot them dead. Just like one might do if that trespasser was inside your house. You have no idea what their intentions are and if they're armed, you can only speculate. A dead trespasser can't rape, assault, or murder....
PJ - The Obama administration has already sufficiently demonstrated its willingness to sue the state of Arizona to assert that it is the job of the federal government to manage immigration. It is also the job of the federal government to secure the national borders. All the state of Arizona and these ranchers are doing is asking the federal government to do the job it is constitutionally required to do.
mike277 - Its not really clear from the article whether the land this rancher uses along the border is land he owns or land he leases from the government, although I find it unlikely that the government has not exercised some sort of eminent domain along the entire US/Mexican border. Regardless of land ownership, it remains the job of the federal government to secure our borders - not securing the land 10 miles from the border.
Where are all the libs now with their ban gun slogans?
It's understandable to hear the violent outcries from locals who feel helpless, but shooting illegal immigrants and drug smugglers might bring the violent cartel scenarios to our side of the border.
What is really needed is a comprehensive (non-government) review of drug policies and who benefits the most from the ban on hemp(which is not pot and won't get you high, but is related to marijuana), a plant that can yield a much higher amount of paper per acre than trees and better quality, besides being less harmful to the environment. There are reasons unknown to the public at large, as to why the rich elites need both democrat and republican support for their corporate interests. Take a look at some of president Obama's staff, and consider one person who is from Monsanto and is now connected to the dept of agriculture, I was told. So even if the democrats aren't as outright greedy and ruthless as the modern republican party, does it mean they're hands are magically clean ?
Check out the history of DUPONT and why it couldn't allow US farmers to compete by growing a natural plant that yielded better products than it's man-made big corporate @!$%#. Wake up America, if pot were legal right now, all the Mexican Cartel pot profits would go up in smoke instantly. It doesn't solve the heroin problem, but maybe a reverse "boxer rebellion"(look it up) would be a start ?
Don't believe everything you hear from a "limo-liberal" and especially not anything you hear from the Ru$h Limp-paughs, Shown Handditys, and FAUX "news".
Another very important point to realize: All rich one-percenter's (dems and repub-nuts) are in need of cheap illegal laborers to keep American wages low, why you ask ? To keep the middle class struggling and helpless, and not in the least concerned with "politics as usual".
As long as illegals are available in most states to do janitorial, roofing, painting, construction clean-up, landscaping, etc...then there is no reason for small time contractors to hire legal Americans who need to work at a higher wage, even if it's only $12-15/hour (which is barely a living wage, and not if taxes are paid).
Finally, the problem along the southern border/s is not only a federal problem, but a state problem as well. Are the state, county, and local police involved ?
Governor Brewer tried to help the poor man, but the Obama administration sued Arizona for it (and California boycotted Arizona, financially bankrupting them). Now, Obama is demonstrating what he meant by "this is the Federal government's job" by legislating the Dream Act and demanding Republicans stop dreaming about actual border enforcement.
If Chuck Norris doesn't want to deal with this Border issue, sounds like a yob for The World's Most Interesting Man.
I'm a Lover, not a Fighter... but I'm also a Fighter, so don't get any ideas. Stay Thirsty, my friends...
If Americans quit getting worked up about gov't spending and allow some programs to get cut or even cut out we might have enough funds to dedicate to border protection.
In my ideal world, I'd bring our military home and use them to patrol our borders. Their military maneuvers and exercises done all along the south border would be able to stop most of the migration there.
Another good move others have mentioned above would be to legalize pot and hemp so as to cut the cartels right out of the equation. With ZERO profit the smuggling would stop literally overnight. I'm cynical enough to believe there is payola going on to keep these plants illegal. Big pharma, cartels, and others can afford to give to politicians so our own public servants ignore the MAJORITY of Americans and keep these plants illegal. (And no, I don't even smoke if you were wondering. But it doesn't bother me if others want to smoke.)
We spend almost a trillion dollars per year on defense and we can't even protect our own borders? We should hang all of these Washington crooks and start fresh. WE ARE A JOKE!!!
Hey you folks in AZ, don't you dare try defending your property or that lame brain in the WH will being suing YOU too.
@usa1967 - you mean that a previous occupant of the WH, Mr.Dubya, paid more attention to securing the border? LOL! You people crack me up... BOTH parties are just a sham.
Wisconsinwarrior
While I agree with much of what you say, the reality is that President Obama and his leftist liberal minions would never allow it. Heaven forbid we should upset our esteemed neighbors to the South who have provided so many voters toward his reelection! As I stated above, I firmly believe our government should repeal the Posse Comitus Act which forbids the use of the regular armed forces to patrol our borders. We need permanent real time satellite imaging of our borders and much increased Predator drone surveillance, preferably of the armed variety. The cartels will only respond to two things. Force against force, and to hit them where it will hurt them the most which is in the pocket book! If they cannot get their products to market they will lose huge amounts of revenue. As the cartel drug runners are coming across the border, meet them with heavily armed regular troops and Border Patrol. Give them one chance to surrender and/or return to Mexico. If they choose not to then obliterate them to teach the cartels a lesson. Now I know the first thing the leftist liberals will complain about is the cost, but safety is not cheap. I personally have no problem with taxpayers (including myself) having to absorb some of the cost if that is the price of feeling safe and secure in our homes along the border.
I don't remember Pres Bush suing anyone.
Give an AK47 to EVERY landowner on the Mexican border with permission to shot the drug dealers or mules and wetbacks as they cross the border to their land. Heck put a bounty on them they don't treat Americans much better the Mexicans seem to think something is owed to them. And when they shoot shoot to kill and make sure the body is thrown back across the border!!
he's breaking my heart.....with a fifty thousand acre spread he can afford security guards.
what does he pay for all the leased land......
boo hoo mr chilton
Thinkstraight, you need to put a little more thought into the situation before you make such a comment. Don't think for one minute that the cartels won't defend their corridors into the US. If any one of the land owners along the border decides to take up arms and defend against the illegal use of their property by drug smugglers they would be signing their own death warrant. This is a job that only the Federal Government, with its resources, can successfully handle. The task is to get them to do it. Can our borders be successfully secured? Absolutely, but first there has to be a willingness to do it, and that willingness must start at the top, but it's just not there. And I can guarantee you it won't be there for at least four more long years.
Ak47s suck. Give them AR15s and AR10s.
"Another idea: every year Texas has a rattlesnake round-up. Rather than kill the poor little vipers, move them to the border! A well invested border is a well protected border:)"
@Russ.. Go ahead and move rattlesnakes to the border.. in an hour there will be shoes and belts.. ..George Lopez
otto...shooting an illegal immigrant?? How about a drug smuggling ahole?? THAT is what this article is about....And you say it will bring the "violence" here?? Did you know that there is an area, I think near Phoenix, that is controlled by Mexican drug smugglers that the Police don't even patrol?? That violence is already here...And yes nj bill....he has land that he pays for and has owned for years...but yet it is HIS fault they come over and he deserves NO protection from the Government...How about you bill...do YOU deserve protection from the Government because you're poor?
I had no idea the latest school shooting was in the U.S. Mexico border.
If this is a perfect example why people have assault weapons, why are they not being used? Why do we have this issue if all these millions of assault weapons were bought to be used to deter border crossings?
Your own statement defeats your argument.
What this is a perfect example of, is that no matter how many people or resources you throw at something, you will always have a problem.
If we have to cut funding to the Meals on Wheels program (gets food to home bound and elderly that can not cook for themselves) due to lack of funds, there isn't any funds for this.
Since you think all these assault weapons were bought to defend the border, tell all those owners to start doing what they bought them for, OK?
We're broke. We have no more money. If we have to keep cutting programs that service the elderly and disabled, we do not have the billions required to just secure the southern border.
We have let this issue drag on for decades. Short of Marshall Law on the border, we would just be throwing money away. Military intervention is the only solution now and that is the beginning of a slippery slope of a militaristic rule.
Sees Thru Gloss,
"A person with that much land should be able to afford a highly-charged long electrical fence."
Don't know much about farming or cattle do you? Any idea of the profit margins that they operate from. Some are good years some are terrible. I doubt their margins are much better if at all than my cousins that have a dairy farm in PA. The POINT is NO ONE should have to do what you suggest. I don't care what color,race or nationality the people are. As long as they are here legally they deserve to be safe and have a chance at being successful. It should not matter what state, political party, religion or anything else. It should be because we are all human beings and sometimes we just have to help each other. Then when we are finished we can call each other names and start yelling insults again.
Personally after much thought I like having our Military help in patrolling our borders. It would keep people employed and spending here at home plus it would help our Citizens as well. I know that we need to get spending down but this is to important to ignore
Rob68 - Great Post :)
@mountainlady, I think that is a really great idea to bring home service men and women and pay them to protect the border,they are already trained and ready for combat they have been trained to use the type of weapons it would take to be on level playing ground with these drug smugglers. the only problem is the government will say no funding! they would rather waste billions after the drugs have made it to our streets and fine and imprison the local dealers while the heads of these operations are able to retool and keep their business up and running. but why don't they cut the problem off at its source? maybe theres more money for them after the drugs have made it to our streets. I mean if they are catching smugglers and burning a million dollars worth of marijuana in the fields theres no profit in that, but if the drugs get thru and they can fine each person with the smallest amount of weed then they really clean up , we are talking billions of dollars a year. its like the old saying theres no money in the cure ,its the disease ,that's the real cash cow. why not put the soldiers returning home on border patrol up and down the bordr with orders to shoot on sight! if they just catch em and deport em we all know they will just be right back at it as soon as they get another chance to do so. im not like one of these conspiracy nuts but I do believe these drugs are allowed to make there way to our streets so the local police can then profit from the people looking to buy a little bit of weed for personal use, I don't smoke myself,{anymore} but I think weed should be legalized , the sale of legal alcohol kills way more people each year than the sale of weed. I do not have figures to back that up but speaking from experience I could smoke a joint to the head and drive just fine, possibly under the speed limit, but 2 or 3 beers and I would not make it home without hitting something, im not a big drinker. yet I can go to any store I want and buy as much booze as I want legally and no one could do a damn thing until it was already to late. so I say legalize marijuana in all of the U.S. and post soldiers armed to kill up and down our border. the war on drugs has been dragging on for decades and I can tell you in the city I live in , I can get anything I want delivered to my house with one phone call! from numerous sources. but like I said, theres no money in the cure, its the disease, that's the governments cash cow. jmho like it or not. I do not care. I have been a drug addict for close to 40 years and not a day has gone by that I was not high on whatever I want and I have never even came close to being caught! thank god now im clean finally and in treatment and getting my life back together with the help of the methadone clinic but that's a whole other argument for another day. peace people and I hope the smugglers don't kill the people in this story on their own land for doing nothing more than taking a walk and some pos armed to the teeth sees them as a threat. but im sure that has happened many times and will happen again. and that poor kid taking a shower and some weirdo sticks his hand in the window? wow not safe anywhere these days huh? crazy world we live in
inmissouri: My thoughts, exactly! Spread out some good old Claymores and sit back and wait for the fun to begin! ~_o
Joe Mike, if AZ thinks that they should enforce immigration- and secure borders then I assume smugglers are part of it. So why are they now looking for the fed to help them on border security? I guess they can't have it both ways.
Also all those who believe in 2nd amendments interpretation as no gun control whatsoever, how do they feel about AZ ranchers now wanting somebody else to protect them? Where are their mighty guns?
So PJ do you think that ANYONE should enforce ILLEGAL immigration?? So because I live in an area that isn't near the border and lets say out in the country and drug smigglers use my property to hang out on, do *I* get to have some form of protection?? The states have ALWAYS looked to the feds for border security you nimwit....
Rob68, if you flex your muscle above the shoulder a bit - then you might understand that I am saying that AZ has double standards when it comes to border security. They are using immigration as a political tool whereas when it comes to true security issue from smugglers then they are putting tail in between.
Same goes with guns. If people are so fond of guns - then why can't you actually use them when threatened by smugglers. Why do you want to run to Mama Fed? Or do you guys think that guns are only to be used on innocent children?
SO what you are saying oh exhalted one is that since they want the Givernment to crack down on illegal immigration they don't have the right to ask for more protection from drug smuggling aholes?? Tell me why that is oh thee of the smart muscle above the shoulders?
Oh never mind ye commoner ... lest it will overburden your overworked muscle above the shoulder.
@Pajamas,
"Can you imagine riding your horse through here on your own land and running into a guy with an AK-47 and 20 or 30 guys behind him dressed in camouflage and carrying drugs?," he asked."
This quote alone should explain things Brainiac - LOLZZZZZ
"Also all those who believe in 2nd amendments interpretation as no gun control whatsoever, how do they feel about AZ ranchers now wanting somebody else to protect them? Where are their mighty guns?"
A Mom and a Dad (kids in hiding) each with a gun against 20 or 30 guys ? Let me guess your reply will be "Never tell me the odds". Besides Mr. Han Solo just because they have guns doesn't mean that they want to USE them unless cornered. Besides what if that AK-47 is not just semi-automatic? I could go on and on USING FACTS AND LOGIC but it is probably pointless anyway.
Alas you are possessed of a Singular Wit - and it's a shame that you are wasting the one wit that you have here. Hey Han why don't you and Chewie fly the Meandering Flotsam down to the border and show us how to do things. Try negotiating first and let us know how it works..........OK?
The only thing you said that makes sense is that AZ. might have a case of double standards. But the fact is even Conservative believe that the government is here to do what we can't do for ourselves and I'd say this pretty much passes the "Litmus Test".
Regards,
A Liberal
BTW- Sorry if my words were to big for you - LOLZZZZZZ
PJ....I take that as a compliment since it seems mine is the only one at work....
Sad thing is, if the ranchers shoot these illegal alien smugglers dead THEY would be the ones to go to jail!
not if they didn't tell anybody. Who would know? Back-hoe, pit in the ground, buried under 10 feet of dirt...who would know?...nobody even knows they are there right? They will just send more to look for the last and eventually you'd take care of the whole unsavory lot....from that side anyway.
Let a few go and track them to their drop off with some drones and let our boys handle the scum from this side. No sympathy for drug transporters, sellers or users. They can all burn in hell for all I care.
If I knew the ranchers were nixin' them, I'd never tell a soul.
Sad thing is, people like you consider yourselves "pro-life" yet nonchalantly advocate for the murder of other human beings like this.
There are do-goodie lawyers all along the US/Mexican border waiting to pounce on any US citizen who dares look askance on an illegal alien. Unfortunately, they also have allies in the Federal Courts.
Cameron,
You don't know me...You don't know "people like me". As far as I'm concerned, if you or yours want to murder their unborn children go for it. I don't really give a $hit. Your choice and nobody elses.
You are off on a tangent here and don't even know wtf I am! It's laughable. I haven't even said the first thing about abortion.
Shooting at armed smugglers crossing your land is not very wise. The cartels are much more aggressive and violent than the smugglers of immigrant workers in the past. If fired upon, they might decide to move to another area, or they might decide to wipe out the rancher and his family.
It costs a lot to keep enough agents on the border to prevent any illegal crossings for the entire length, and Congress doesn't seem to see the necessity of providing adequate funding.
You can't stop at a single armed stand. You have to be committed to stopping this crap. Shoot. Then shoot some more. Then petition the courts to have some exacting decisions about protecting our country, including those that rightfully own land on the border.
Come on people. Enough is not only enough but now we are beholding to anyone that has the huevos to keep the smuggling up and use our transparent laws against us. Shoot them for goodness sakes!
Just wait until he misses and only wounds one. They will claim " I am just a poor person looking for work" now you have to pay me because I am disabled and can't feed all my children. Just watch border wars tv show. They have video of the drug smugglers dropping their drugs and then not a minute later when they are caught start playing I am a poor hard working laborer story.
Why does it always have to be killing and shooting. Isn't there any other way?
John: Border wars is JUST a TV show. TV is for entertainment and that show in particular is one of the dumbest on the air today. The reality is ranchers on the AZ border have serious problems with the drug smugglers.
This is a national disgrace. We have worked in the area, specifically on the lands mentioned... let me tell you its a war zone. They (illegals) are better armed then we are, I carry a 9mm while in the field, they carry AK47's. We never thought as an American citizens we would have to carry a gun just to do our job, to protect ourselves from people from other countries no less! We are scientists not a soldiers.
Trespassing is not a capital crime. Yet. Comments here show why we can't solve any problems: too many ignorant hicks with heads up their rectums and guns in their hands.
The relevant questions are: why the border patrol is concentrating too far north; why the real money (Real Estate?) in Arizona isn't worked up about this; why Death Hag Brewer isn't committing state money and state cops to do something - The border may be federal jurisdiction, but people running around with drugs are within state and local.
If the US government can post 26,500 armed US troops in South Korea to protect their country and border why can't our government post 26,500 armed US troops on our border to protect our country?
JIMD, trespassing is a capital crime if you feel your life is threatened. I say arm yourself well and shoot away if you are threaten in any manner.
You do realizde I am sure that Reagan is the one who opened the door and that both Bushes gave Mexico the key to the gate?
Aren't these the same people who want less government and even want to secede from the Union?
Comments like yours and the one from frances about Reagan and Bush are juvenile. These ranchers... these CITIZENS of the US.... have a very real problem trying to defend their property and possibly their lives, and you find it amusing.
Some of the other people commenting here just want to get their two cents worth in by saying, "Oh, don't shoot them!"
The hell with it, do whatever you have to in order to defend what's yours. Don't lose anything that pushes you over the edge where you take your gun to town and let loose your anger on citizens who didn't have anything to do with the decision to lie down and be a door mat for Mexico.
Mr.president, sounds like they have made an excellent case for more border agents. (Republicans, we need to raise taxes to pay for them.)
Well, if the gun grabbers get their way, the Ranchers will not be able to defend themselves because that
30 rd. clip will be illegal, so will the semi-automatic rifle in carbine form. Since the smugglers are carrying
AK-47's, and our Government wants to take away our right to defend our families, by an " assault
weapons " ban, my choice would be very clear. I would sit in a blind, with a Barrett, a gen. 3 starlight
scope and drop them one by one. After all, we are at war over drug smuggling, at least that's what
our Government keeps saying.
I like that idea. Saturate the whole area with rattlesnakes. It would be natural pest control.
We need to bring our military home and put them on the border.
I'm not big on kicking the illegals out, but I would think that with technology this problem could be severely curtailed. Google found it worthwhile to put the entire earth in an app that takes pictures of nearly every square mile of the US. The picture of my house is quite recent (less than a month old because I have equipment that's been placed recently and my sheep are locked up in the yard). Putting a fence up is silly, but if we're willing to put that kind of money into it, we should consider satellite technology that would do a concentrated watch the border. Motion and heat sensors could detect, then border control could be sent out to greet the bad guys. It's crazy that these ranchers are on their own against the bad guys.
Even better yet would be to legalize marijuana and put them out of business.
Our own Government encourages these illegals to cross into our country by continuously ignoring our own immigration laws. This is @!$%#ing outrageous! Democrats allow it for the votes, and Republicans allow it for the cheap labor. When will Americans ever be heard on this? This is @!$%#ing unacceptable!
We are at war. The war on terror unfunded and no end in sight, they are foreign invaders who cross our border armed. Why has there not been a regime change in Mexico? Why have we not initiated preemptive military strikes? There has been a huge expenditure of people and resources in foreign lands to the detriment of Americans. The attacks in public places was expected and the department of Homeland Security was created to address that a decade ago. The Patriot act has been used for many things it was not intended for; that is under the articles of the United States unlawful if not a treasonous act. P.S. Under Patriot Act all financial transactions during those years were easily accessible without warrants. In other words the Justice department was aware of improprieties going on.
Improprieties like illegal aliens.
Like what? Amnesty and voter registration cards?
There is one lesson that should be learned in life. If you don't like it, fix it yourself. If you own the land cover the border with electrified razor and barbed wire, with a strong inside your property to keep your children away from the dangerous fence. If all the ranchers that bordered the border did this, imagine tyhe difference it would make for them and their safety.
Ask the gun manufacturers to pay taxes that will go to cover our borders. They make a mint to arm the smugglers, they should at least pay to keep them off of private property.
You protect your own home with security systems and private security. When police are patrolling the public streets and see someone entering your property they might stop the individual depending on how that person is entering your property. But that's only because the police saw it from a public area. We believe that the portion of their property that sits on the border is not visible from a public area. They might have to allow the Border Patrol random access to their property or give the portion of their property that sits on the border to the government. Or, since this is America and it is their private property, they should hire private security!!!!
One is responsible for one's property. If you are an Arizona Rancher with property along the border, it is your responsibility to secure the border; not the governments. You want smaller government yet ask the government to secure your land. Hypocrisy.
But it shouldn't be the individual rancher's responsibility to enforce the law of the land. If they don't want illegal operations on their land, they have every right to expect the law to come in there and clean it up for them. This wouldn't be any different from you expecting the law to help you if someone was selling drugs to the neighborhood kids.
Do you believe the government will do something? Do not be
naive! 30% of the illega drug sales
goes directly to the senator’s wallets and government pocket. The “underworld”
economy is holding the USA economy, it’s a hard true. Illegal drugs is a
business, a bloody and profitable. While there are customers who use it,
greater the traffic drug. Sure, now is
problem, this had been happening a long time ago!! Now the baby boomers that
used it in the past they are the first to oppose the illegal drug use, after
filling his nostrils with the white powder to satiety and after smoking the
hell out the marihuana cigar...ha, what hypocrisy!!!
Now, you have to protect yourself, it is your land, defend
it, but don’t do it alone!! If you start
the fire (the shooting), they will respond with fire, the difference is in men
power!! Struggle the traffic point and they will find another gap but far from
your houses. Like I said, it is a business and will not stop, today you will
stop the drug traffic thru ranchers’ land, tomorrow they will drill holes
beneath your ranch or worse.
Colombian cocaine, Mexican marihuana, oriental opium all of
this drugs cross the USA and you do not even know it, thru containers, cars,
mules whatever means necessaries to deliver the goods. Do you not see any
cities that have docks complaining about drug issue?? Why not? Have too much to lose, jobs, money,
etc.
Open your eye, the best defense is to educate our sons!!
Don’t get me wrong, I am against illegal drug use; they are deadly and destroy
more than one life, we have to fight it back, but violence leads to more
violence, and to those who will babbling about “you don’t live in this area and
do not know what you talking about blah blah” let me tell I know, I have
experienced the same thing in flesh and is not pretty.
frances, hope you're not talking about NAFTA. You should probably see who passed and signed that bill and strongly advocated its passing. Here's a small hint: see who controlled congress and who was in the president's seat!
Yes, drop off all the Legalization of Illegal Aliens and Anti Gun Maniacs on the US Southern Border so that they can get the Illegal Aliens to sing Kumbya with them and talk them to death.
President Obama's Department of Justice, pertaining to "Immigration" and "US Borders" as Federal Jurisdiction.
AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA'S US BORDER POLICIES OF APRIL 2009 AND AUGUST 2009 OF, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".
WHAT PART OF AGAINST US LAWS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND.
Do you realize how long President Obama has been President and DONE NOTHING.
Hint: The increased Border Patrol was ordered by President Bush (43), not President Obama.
TYPICAL UNEDUCATED POST:
Federal Spending:
60% Entitlements
20% Defense
13% Discretionary Spending
7% Interest (interest on loans like loans from China)
TAKE A ROUGH GUESS WHERE THE FUNDS FOR US BORDER SECURITY COME FROM (HINT: Demoncraps want to cut that Funding).
Typical UNEDUCATED POST. You don't even know where the Drug Cartels are getting Russian Federation Weapons from.
A self description huskergal; as the Waitress has come with the Bill for $2.1 Trillion Meal that President Obama ate, and now he is looking for everyone else to pay.
You do not even know what President Obama demanded in his President's Proposal to US Congress to spend
add to post#3.36.
You do not even know what President Obama demanded in his President's Proposal to US Congress to spend the previously not budgeted for $2.1 Trillion on, do YOU.
So now to pay for the previously not budgeted for $2.1 Trillion, President Obama demanded in another President's Proposal "Automatic Sequestration" ("Across the Board Budget Cuts") to the previously Budgeted for Programs (like Medicare, etc.), Projects (like the US Army Corps of Engineer Longterm US Infrastructure Projects within the US, etc.), Agencies (like FEMA, Department of Education, Veteran's Affairs, etc.), including chopping the Benefits and Entitlements of the "47%" (actual 49%).
President Obama attempted to Bluff US Congress into figuring out how to fund his demanded spending of the previously not budgeted for $2.1 Trillion; and now US Congress has called his Bluff and will do as President Obama demanded in his President's Proposal, "Automatic Sequestration" as "Across The Board Budget Cuts" to all previously Budgeted for Programs, Projects, Agencies, etc..
Hi david-475776 - yes, it is against Pres. Obama's policy, policy can be changed, perhaps Pres. Obama needs to rethink that policy. And returning vets could be hired on to the Border Patrol. Just a thought.
The government has no right to patrol one's land. One owns it. If he has a problem with people, good or bad, crossing his land, it is up to him to stop it and/or correct it. He owns the land. President Obama knows property law. He can do nothing about these people's privately owned lands. Public or leased land he can, bur it is still up to the rancher to protect his land and his property.
If armed drug runners come on property of rancher and he inadvertently shoots individual when he is on Mexican side it opens up all kinds of international BS. If I had the property on border I would post warnings and sue the Mexican government for encroachment under international law. Sovereign nation and all that, don't need the US to back ranchers, call in UN. Bush doctrine also covers this, so petition the US to fulfill their obligations to the war on terror.
huskergal, when does the person who entered the country without permission carrying drugs become the governments obligation? When they leave this ranchers property? When they are no longer on private property? When they cross a public street? When they step on Federal land? When?
Cameron Ford, you have no grounds for that assertion. This forum is about illegals who abuse or country and those farmer's/rancher's land. They are outlaws and we give them free reign. Take your own type of murder to a forum where the subject is being debated.
The answer is simple, when they see someone on private property that is doing something illegal. They can not patrol private property. Patrolling private property is up to the land owner. It makes no difference if the person entered the country illegally or not. The land owner is responsible for his own property and he/she has the right to call the law in, to arrest or remove the trespasser. Landowners, if you want the border blocked so that people can not enter through your land, fortify our property line.
Huskergal, "They can not patrol private property."
I know that you keep saying that and I do think that you believe that it is true. The problem is… you are wrong. I will refer you to 8 U.S.C. Sec. 1357(a)(3).
8 USC § 1357 - Powers of immigration officers and employees
a) Powers without warrant Any officer or employee of the Service authorized under regulations prescribed by the Attorney General shall have power without warrant—
(3) within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States, to board and search for aliens any vessel within the territorial waters of the United States and any railway car, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle, and within a distance of twenty-five miles from any such external boundary to have access to private lands, but not dwellings, for the purpose of patrolling the border to prevent the illegal entry of aliens into the United States.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1357
Yes but above it, it says
It is clear that the officer must visually see the person and can search the person without a warrant if suspected of being here illegally or is committing a crime. In my opinion it is far better for the landowner to secure his own property line as well as having border control around. The people of Arizona want less government, but they ask the government to protect their property. That is a bit hypocritical.
They can build electric fences with towers for the Border Patrol agents. That will help solve their problem and not cost the taxpayers anything.
huskergal, my bad. I thought that when you said: “They can not patrol private property.” you where talking about patrolling. When I say patrolling I am speaking about searching for people that may be breaking the law not searching suspects that may have broken the law.
“The people of Arizona want less government, but they ask the government to protect their property.”
I was under the assumption that under Article IV Section 4 of the US Constitution the government was obligated to protect the border.
Article IV Section 4:
“The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.”
http://constitutionus.com/
Okay they are to protect against invasion and they do. There are border patrols. My initial post still stands. If you want something done, do it yourself. Build electrified razor wire fences on your property line. I also suggest that put a chain link fences closer in on your property to protect your cattle and family from the electric fence. It may cost the rancher some money, but it will be a sound investment in keeping the owners safe.
OK, then he should have every right to shoot the people who are coming over armed. There should be no if ands or buts. His land his way.
huskergal, delusional much? Have ever been to Arizona? The BP is 25 miles north of the border that is what the article is about. Nowhere in the constitution does it say I am obligated to protect my self but it does define the role of the Government. : “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion” and you think that indicates 25 miles north or I must do it myself. The border is not 25 North of the border. How do you want secede our Nation? Is 250 miles enough for you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfTiw8qZI6U
jongone
No, I am not delusional. The government is providing border patrol. They could do more, but as we all see, the GOP wants deep spending cuts because of the deficit. How can the government spend more money protecting the border? So, I say. it is easier to do it yourself. Build a fence that no one can penetrate, like the prison fences. Protection land and people by the landowner in this manner. It is expensive, but isn't it worth it?
Smugglers aren't an invading foreign army. in the rawest sense they are business persons looking to make a profit brought on by the arbitrage situation created by the war on drugs.
huskergal, “How can the government spend more money protecting the border?”
The Border Patrol has an operating budget of $1.4 billion. What is that about one tenth of one percent of the budget? The government spends about that a year in advertising. The DoD gets about 683bil a year but I know we are short on cash when it suits you.
“So, I say. it is easier to do it yourself.”
I do admire your can do self-sufficient attitude but I am also sure that is not what Congress had in mind when they passed the Secure Fence Act of 2006.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Fence_Act_of_2006
Set, there were over 327,000 apprehensions in the Southwestern sector in 2011. Over 2.5 million pounds of marijuana, 4+ tons of cocaine, and about a ton of meth were seized in the Southwestern sector in 2011. There are also armed roaming "rip crews" who are in the rawest sense also “business persons looking to make a profit”. For what ever reason they come I am sure that if even a small percentage of these folks where trundling across your property in the dead of night it would look like an invasion to you.
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/border_security/border_patrol/usbp_statistics/fy_profile_2011.ctt/fy_profile_2011.pdf
Here is a thought, why don't all the crazies that want to shoot people in schools and theaters move to Arizona and have a wee old time keeping the boarder closed. And when a US agent wants you to stop then shoot yourself.
Because they are cowards beneath the drug runners, that's why they attack toddlers and firefighters. Pretty much the helpful and innocents are their prey.
Send Lil Wayne Lapper. He'll fix 'em.
Legalize pot. Problem eliminated. I can't feel sorry for some guy using taxpayer-owned land at a huge discount to feed his cattle.
Why are you complaining? You're being a racist. Obama and Holder say so.
They're just law abiding Mexicans looking for jobs American's won't do, and they're trying to get their kids into the American Dream Act being pushed by Obama and his friends.
Heck here is an idea they are drug runners crossing on their land charge them a fee and let them come. The idiots that think drugs are good to take have access to drugs and the government and landowners can split the fee help take care of the government financial problems (unless of course they give it back to the illegals in medicaid) and make it a little less profitable for the drug runners and let the IRS run the program they will go after the money.
Drone Practice for the millitary. shoot to kill. "one shot one kill".
Nice Quiet Drones with silenced guns.
If you read the article, Sees Thru, you would have noted the rancher owns some of his land, and leases a lot more. The issue of "a big electric fence" is bunk anyway. It didn't work in the movie fantasy "Jurassic Park", and it certainly won't work in the real world of the Mexican/US border.
I don't know why this didn't appear under Sees Thru's original post. I hit the "REPLY" button twice.
Sounds to me like an armed invasion of the U.S... call in the Army or Marines.. aren't they the ones that are supposed to protect the U.S. ... used to be the Calvery.. I think they're needed again... good thing now they've got copter's w/machine guns now instead of horses..
Timothy,I am in compete agreement with your comments.
Timothy, yes, perhaps we should be calling on Calvary for help.
I think the word you meant to use was cavalry.
Call the drugs WMD's and maybe we can get something done.
Yeah. Because everyone knows that there were no illegal aliens or drug runners prior to January 20, 2009.
Wow btone...you really think you're something don't you? I read your post...you would disarm the offenders and call the police. I'm trying my best not to lol...it's not working.
Won't work. Liberals will refuse to see the drugs at that point.
Call them WMD's and nobody would ever be able to find them.
AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA'S US BORDER POLICIES OF APRIL 2009 AND AUGUST 2009 OF, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".
WHAT PART OF AGAINST US LAWS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND.
By the way unlike the ignorance and no experience of President Obama, we have MORE Bayonets (that do not run out of ammunition) and Horses, than during the Korean War. Ever since we attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG in October 2001 did this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY
We MUST use Horses, Pack Horses, Pack Mules, etc. to conduct US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare, to stay off the few roads (mined with IEDs, and known routes of advance for ambushes), and most vehicles cannot get thru little Mountain trails. 2/3rds of Afghanistan is Mountains. We also cannot use Helicopters or our positions become known and we get attacked in large swarms of Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, etc.; not to mention most Helicopters are NOT made for High Altitude and the high speed wind vortices that will force an aircraft into a mountain face.
TYPICAL UNEDUCATED DEMONCRAPS.
Iraq: President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address demanding the Overthrow of President Hussein with US Law H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Justification Section 2 WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, with US Congressional Appropriations. Those of us that knew something knew that President Hussein was the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using his Iraqis Funds and the lives of the Iraqis Military. US Law H.R.4655 was amended to authorize US Military Force, with President Clinton's Failed attempt as 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox that resulted in the over 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide to condemn the US as the Great Satan.
US Law, H.R. 4655.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
During 2001 Operation Viking Hammer and 2002 Operation Hotel California we augmented by the US Army 10th Special Forces Group attacked, seized and secured the Iraqis Chemical Weapons Facility at Sargat Iraq.
In 2003 President Clinton's Standing US Law, H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" as US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein becomes 2003 US Military Operation Iraqis Freedom.
Since 2001 Afghanistan and Iraq were United Nation's Missions of Nation Building.
Get over it,
Yes. I do think that I'm something. So far, no one's been able to prove me wrong.
You are obvioulsy accustomed to hanging around with people who need guns to defend themselves.
Go get 'em, Tiger. Shoot 'em up.
We should bring home ALL foreign based US troops home and have them secure our borders at the border. Not 15 miles from the border.
Good start.........But put the bulk of the troops in Public Schools, bet that'd stop/prevent, the next crazy. From attacking the the kids. But............Nah can't do that because, first it would work. And secondly it upsets the liberal. Because there would have to be narrow and specific changes to the Constitution.
Hello folks, doesn't Arizona have a law, I believe it is known locally as SB1070 or Senate Bill 1070, which is aimed at discouraging illegal immigrants from entering or remaining in the state. It expanded the powers of state police officers to ask about the immigration status of anyone they stop, and to hold those suspected of being illegal immigrants.
I think this is not only a good law but one that has been long overdue and should be enforced rigorously around our entire country, don’t you?
But in order for it to be truly legal and moral it can only be enforced by Native American Indians.
AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA'S US BORDER POLICIES OF APRIL 2009 AND AUGUST 2009 OF, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".
WHAT PART OF AGAINST US LAWS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND.
LEGAL WOULD BE HAVING YOUR ARSES DO THOSE THINGS THAT YOU ARE VOLUNTEERING OTHERS TO DO; THAT YOU YOURSELVES REFUSE TO DO.
The rancher seems awful concerned about the type and amount of guns the smugglers have. Didn't he get the memo from the rest of the right-wingers that "guns don't hurt people" and "you can't blame guns"?
Cameron, what memo? The current inept administration in D.C. purposefully gave weapons to those drug smugglers in Mexico. I guess they believe that "guns don't hurt people", as you say. You don't have to be a right winger to be able to identify liberal BS.
Hello, they are CRIMINALS with guns. I'm sure you don't see the difference.
Another example from Cameron Ford of the limp logic that's so prevalent from our political "liberals", who also posted such a gem as:
"Sad thing is, people like you consider yourselves "pro-life" yet nonchalantly advocate for the murder of other human beings like this."
...thus handily obliterating the concepts of innocence and guilt in only two comments. Quite an intellectual feat.
Blame these guns on Obama* and Holder. Fast and Furious.
the govt is too busy making sure illegals have drivers licenses and homosexuals can get married. take the law into you own hands and kill these dirty mexican criminals if you find them on your land.
Actually the government is busy giving ranchers like this thousands of dollars of welfare handouts in the form of farm subsidies and FEMA payments. Betcha he doesn't complain about the government when his handsome check arrives.
Cameron, So, because these ranchers, or at least some of them, take advantage of existing government programs, they have no right to complain about drug smugglers from other countries crossing their land with automatic weapons? I guess you don't take advantage of tax credits when doing your income taxes and that makes your comments much more meaningful. You and your like are what's dragging this country down.
No, I think he is entirely entitled to anything he has coming, just like anybody else... but if he takes advantage of such programs he has no right to complain about others who do likewise, like so many conservatives like Uncle Henry here try to do.
He's concerned about the IDIOTS with the guns...not the guns, idiot.
Cameron
Lay off the government cool aid.......
Stop.....remove head from ass......breathe some air for once.
We are being invaded- as the US has shown it is not concerened about it's own citizens- Only the illegals who are Breaking the LAW.
Big difference is, he's a U.S. citizen. Illegals should have no right to anything in the U.S. other than going through the process of becoming legal.
How can this be? According to the Obama Administration and their puppet head of Homeland Security, our border is much better protected than ever before. This nation elected a paper President that has done nothing but drive us deeper in debt with the bribes he bought those votes with by promising free stuff to those that think taxing the rich will solve everything. Get ready middle class, the Democrats will soon be announcing that the nations problems are much worse than they thought and we'll all be paying more taxes very soon.
You're in the running for stupidest post in the thread. You should go on a Limblow detox retreat for six months, and swear an oath not to rub yourself while looking a gun mags.
JimD.............................your post is the stupidest I've seen so far.
Lanikai..........................your post is RIGHT ON Sir!!!
-usa1967-
Agree with you 100%!
JimD,
Drinking the koolaid again?
I think the better question, is how bad was security before? GW wanted to increase the number of border agents by 6000, but never went to congress to get it fundedd.
Put our Army troops right on the border. Anybody that tries to cross, shoot them dead. THAT WOULD TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM IN SHORT ORDER! Are people that stupid not to figure that out?
They have already chased the US Troops away, even the Reserves, National Guard and Retirees.
i wish we can do that but no we have to go to war with other people that dont like use and dont want us there
so true...
Wiscon:
100% behind you on that one.
Bet he would not last a week.
Gramps,
You are correct to a point. The troops that Obama put on the border were unarmed observers/support troops to help the Border Patrol. We need to put fully armed troops on our southern border with orders to detain if possible and shoot to kill if not, anyone trying to illegally enter the this country.
But hey not to worry. If Obama and the liberals have their way soon no one will be able to own an Assault style firearm so the Ranchers will be seriously out gunned anyway (not that they have that much of a chance against the Obama/Holder armed Mexican Cartels.) Liberals say that there is no use for Assault style firearms in this country in the hands of private persons? I think this article demonstrates a need and use on for those living on the Mexican border to have one to have a small chance at surviving. If Obama doesn't like people defending themselves then he needs to do something to REALLY secure the borders and protect these people living there instead of just talking about it.
It is time to take this country back from illegal immigrants and stop the invasion and close the borders to illegal immigration by any means that they make necessary by their actions.
I've seen the 'no-mans' land between the West Bank and Jordan... Let's hire Israel to manage the border for us... Intrusions would be nonexistant.
I cannot believe all the comments attacking the potus! remember this is the man that ,single handly ,took out bin laden! from his desk at the white house, surrounded by security guards, and with the fiscal cliff just days away left for vacation in Hawaii at a cost of 4 million dollars to be paid by the tax payers, ......uh .......nevermind..........
Until the Posse Comitatus is modified it is against the law to use the Army or Airforce domestically.
http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm
We need to put a three layer defense on the Mexico border. 20ft deep 30 ft wide trench, barbed wire, 50 yard wide land mine zone, Electrified 30 ft tall fence. Automatic machine gun bunkers every 25 yards. Let's get serious.
Or put a single layer defense called enforcing the employment laws. No more hiring through a labor contractor, so the employer can claim ignorance of the status of his workers. If an illegal worker is employed on your property, you are responsible and pay the fine.
Any merchant can run your credit card and get the transaction authorized in about 20 seconds, whether he is in a store, or a booth at a flea market. There is no technical reason why the same type system couldn't be used to verify legal worker status for every employee. It isn't being done because too many employers want the freedom to ire the lowest paid workers, regardless of legal status.
Well, we already have a river, fence, guards on land air and river, 20 miles of detectors throughout the desert, 20 miles of sporadic location of guards, FOBs, and UAVs.
What we need is more guards. Kind of dumb that we have sensors, UAVs, and FOBs already placed and no guards to man them.
Robert757A, Are you referring to Romney?
So musician, your suggestion is that we invade the soverign nation of Mexico? What if Mexico or Canada decided it was okay to establish a 100 mile buffer zone in the US?
That or send in one of the Navy Sea Bee Battalions from the Naval Construction Battalion Center at Port Hueneme, CA.
Robert they're selling drugs. They don't need your jobs. They are crossing the border to bring drugs into this country and will do whatever they have to do to get that done. I'm sure they have plenty of cash and can go undetected.
WhO GIVES A S....H.....I....T...About Mexico,its just a waste land that we left them,when we came over and took America.Actually we took it from the indians(aztec)who were breading with the real spanish people from Spain,because Spain ruled South America,and Mexico at the time.And that is actually how mexicans came about.Mexico,is the only country that is so proud to fly there mexican flag,but yet hate to live there,hate to be called mexican(wants to be called hispanic).But yet has a flag that looks alot like an Italian flag,simullar dialects to Italy.Spain even hates Mexicans,because they will say that mexicans are the bottom of the barrel.So if they come over the border illegelly,we should just shoot them,like we did when we first came over,but at least now we have a good excuse.
They will get a boat (or submarine) and go around the boarder 10 miles out.
tony, I doubt that they will try the boat/submarine trick in Arizona.
What would the Border Patrol do, if one of these landowner's announced that they intended to arm themselves (heavily) and confront the first trespassers they found on their land tomorrow night. I have to question if there is anything that the BP could do to stop you (legally anyway). Or, would they be duty bound to show up with a bunch of officers to try and avoid the possibility of bloodshed. Because, if they didn't show up and someone got killed, the public opinion backlash would be like a Tsunami.
"A federal appeals court has upheld a controversial verdict that an Arizona rancher must pay $87,000 to four illegal immigrants he detained at gunpoint while they were crossing his property."
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/04/nation/la-na-arizona-rancher-20110205
JamVee - I would imagine that many, many Arizona ranchers have already done that. If the tresspassers were threatening the rancher or the rancher's family and the rancher killed one or more of them in the process of defending his family, I would guess that the federal and state governments would do exactly nothing.
Jongone - Try telling the whole story. The rancher held these people at gunpoint and asserted at trial a self-defense rationale for doing so. He admitted at trial (in the very article you link to) that none of the people were armed nor in any way threatened him, his family or his property. His self-defense "defense" failed and he was ordered to pay compensation for his crime of false imprisonment. He is not the police and cannot detain people who are not threatening him for the civil violation of being in the country illegally. Citizen's arrest powers do not allow someone to act as the police in these circumstances.
joe, sure... 24 people on your property in the dead of night and you just call the police and go back to sleep. Have they caught the perpetrators that murdered Robert Krentz on his ranch in the dead of night? Your right he should have just let them walk on by and mended his fence again after he rounded up the cattle in the morning.
Joemike, the actual truth that Jongone omitted is that the four "illegal" individuals the rancher was holding at gunpoint were in fact a family of American citizens, including children, that were out hunting and crossed onto the ranchers land by mistake, but because they were Hispanic looking the rancher held them at gunpoint. I live about 40 miles South of where this ocurred and am very familiar with the case as it unfolded. The rancher in question is well known in my area for previous similar acts of detaining individuals at gunpoint.
"It said Barnett threatened to sic his large dog on 24 migrants while they rested and that he kicked a woman while she lay, terrified, on the ground. Four women in the group sued." That article says nothing about them being American citizens, that were out hunting and crossing onto the ranchers land. Don't you think that if this Rancher is as well known as you says...they probably wouldn't have ended up on his land? Somebody needs to get their story straight. Who knows which one to believe?
Separate case involving the Moreno family, I believe.
Correction to the above. It was the Morales family. There have been several suits that have been filed against Barnett over the years. Some may still be pending in the courts.
Get over it
By the way, in case you wee not aware of it, hunting in AZ is by drawing by the state and then broken down by county. The Morales family may not have been from the immediate area of Barnett's ranch, and thus would not have known they were on his land. I'm fairly certain that is what occurred in this particular incident.
Ed-NavDoc - thanks for the more accurate information.
Where is Sheriff Bigmouth (Arpaio)?
ebon, Sheriff Joe is about 100 miles North in Maricopa County.
Actually, it is closer to about 200 miles from the border. You've got Pima County in between Cochise and Maricopa Counties.
I was approximating from the Western edge of both Pima and Maricopa Counties where they share a border with Yuma County. At any rate the international border with Mexico is not in Sheriff Joe’s jurisdiction.
Agreed.
Easy fix. If you see armed mexicans on your land and you have not given them permission to be there. You shoot them. It is well within the law that if you fear for your life you can use deadly force. As far as I am concerned, there is not even any reason to tell the authorities. The problem will get solved quick enough.
It's their property, they could lay some traps, get a dozen Rotweillers or Pit Bulls and start capping some azzes. A little border patrol on their property would help them and us.
Oh sure. Set some traps. Catch an illegal. Go to jail. Nobody can set booby traps and get away with it. Traps are indiscriminate and will always put those who set them in serious legal peril. No. Only solution is for the government and president to enforce and obey the Constitution.
I remember you, dez. So certain of a Romney victory. What happened, brah?
I wonder what you Liberals would do if some one came into your house and took your property.
They could start by putting a sign in their front window that says 'This is a Gun Free Home'.
The banks did!
I would disarm the criminal and subdue him / them. Then I would call the police.
When the police got there, I would give them the gun and the intruders.
The only regret I'd have would be that I'd probably never find out which registered gun owner the crooks took the weapons from in the first place.
nice dream. do you really believe that? none of that would happen. you would be shot and killed. hope you get a chance to try.
Could be costly trying to subdue/detain anybody...
"A federal appeals court has upheld a controversial verdict that an Arizona rancher must pay $87,000 to four illegal immigrants he detained at gunpoint while they were crossing his property."
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/04/nation/la-na-arizona-rancher-20110205
best way to prevent a lib mooch from breaking into your home is putting a now hiring sign out in the front yard.
Of course. If I didn't, I wouldn't have written it.
no I wouldn't.
If I do, I'll be sure to chime in on Newsvine the next morning and let you know how it played out.
btone is laughable. He acts so tough when he's not the one trying to avoid illegal drug smuglers.
"I would disarm the criminal and subdue him / them. Then I would call the police." hahahaha. You would subdue them with your brute strength? Your biceps don't stand a chance again an AK47. OMG you're embarassing yourself...and you don't even know it.
Illegal immigration and drug smuggling is not a liberal/conservative issue. I am sick to death of you rwnjs blaming all the wrongs in the U.S. on liberals when it was conservative policies that allowed the immigration problem to get this far out of control to begin with.
BULL
Get over It,
Every person who posts on Newsvine is laughable. It's just a big ego fest. We think our opinions are important. If we didn't think so, we wouldn't post. If we didn't think we were smarter, we wouldn't post.
Anyway,
Durbin's question had nothing to do with AK47's. It had to do with breaking into a house. Criminals don't break into houses with AK47's. Your reading comprehension makes you laughable. You are embarrassing yourself and you don't even know it.
And yes. I would disarm them. Then I would call the police. If you need a gun to defend yourself, it is your own shortcoming. Don't hold me to your shamefully low benchmark.
how about $20.00 for two ears!!!!!!!!!!!
This isn't corn country.
American citizens along the border are asking/pleading for help and protection. The president and federal government is ignoring them. Nice!
You mean the Republican-controlled House of Representatives is ignoring them, don't you? You know, the lower House of Congress where legislation originates.
How many symbolic votes against Obamacare in the past three years (thirty-something?) and not one Boehner-led proposal to remedy the border situation...
When you try to enact border security as a state,the guy in Hawaii's justice department will sue you.
ACLU will protect the illegals and drug runners and they get a free pass from the courts!
How do you anti-government, no more taxes, arm yourselves folks feel about this. Do you think it is the farmers problems to take care of themselves. It was their choice to go out there and live. Not our problem, why should we pay taxes to worry about them? Tell them to move. There are a a lot of folks pleading for help what is special about this situation? We subsidized them to the max and now we have to pay tax money to protect them. Not sure what the tea bag party would think of this.
mgm
If your house catches on fire, you are the one who chose to buy it, why should tax payers pay firefighters to come save your home?
If an intruder breaks into your home, you are the one that chose to live there and why should the taxpayers pay for cops to come rescue you? Just welcome them with open arms, and don't call for help, because you chose to live there.
Your kids go to school, you are the one that chose to have them, why should taxpayers pay for them to go to school.
It is really ignorance to blame a land owner for anyone trespassing. Do you always blame the victims instead of the criminals? That is messed up. So if someone breaks into your home, remember, your own words, it is your fault for living there.
Bwil...You are talking about chicago correct?
the illegals choose to live there.
If the US would revoke the draconian drug laws criminalizing a consenting adult's choice to smoke weed, then a large part of the problems outlined in this article would quickly disappear in a puff of smoke. The only people benefitting from the current situation are the dregs and trough wallowers in the criminal injustice system. The taxpayer, of course, foots the bill. Over a trillion dollars wasted since the "war on drugs" commenced over forty years ago and I don't see any progress being made. I read somewhere that a sure sign of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again while expecting to see a different result. May Zeus shower lightening bolts on their thick, greedy heads. CLINTON 2016!
And with harder drugs, the importers will be harder criminals and have bigger guns.
Just what the libs want. They don't want US citizens having them, but they are ok with drug runners having them. Funny how when it comes to getting their drugs they will make gun ownership exceptions.
Well, we don't need to wait on government for sure. Time to take care of it ourselves. And what a great idea to have all the libs come down and assist us. I'm thinkin' ......bait ? Could be.
Hey Hatfield...you always this stupid, or just on days that end in y ?
"Clinton 2016"...She still has a lot of explaining to do about why she denied more security for the consulate in Benghazi. Passing the buck to Kerry so he can try to sweep it under the rug is a waste of time.
Mrs Impeached has a lot of explaining to do.
That rancher should just post a "GUN FREE RANCH ZONE" sign on his property and everything will be swell.
Works like a charm for the schools up here.
I think they should be supplied with bouncing betties and 50 cal sniper rifles. No one should have to deal with this happening on or near their property.
Ranchers are being subsidized by the federal gov. They get water and grazing right to public lands for next to nothing. It needs to stop.
Oh, since they are being "subsidized" it is ok for illegals with drugs and guns to homestead on their land.
I GOT A FIFTY TOO LEND OUT!
I don't see where they get water "rights" in the grazing lease.
Although the number of animal units has decreased there are still 8.3 million X somewhere around $1.25 per animal per month = around $125 million a year.
I don't think that needs to stop. What does need to stop is the invasion of the USA by Mexico.
Don't worry as soon as Obama enacts his "Gun Ban" The terrorists and drug smugglers will all comply with the "New Laws". They surely won't want to run afoul of the new regs. Besides.........Diane Fienstein and friends are weapon experts and they surely won't leave Joe Q. Public and his 10 rounds of MASSIVE FIREPOWER. At a disadvantage to the 30 rounds and up......... bad guys. . . . .Right ?
I mean just because you're out there in the middle of no where. They're police response times shouldn't be any different than 1600 Penn. Ave..............Right ?
I thought Obama favored the illegals. Now everyone's "up in arms" (pardon the pun.)
This, folks, is why American citizens need AR-15 type weapons! Our own government won't secure our borders, so it is going to come down to Americans who have had it with promises and no actions to secure their own property! A friend of mine went to south Texas to go hog hunting and asked the rancher what to do if they saw armed Mexican drug runners. He was told "Just shoot 'em. I have a backhoe." Sounds fair to me!
You're crazy if you think that private citizen should get into a gun battle with these drug cartels. He will be killed, along with his family. These people are fighting the Mexican Army, and it is a draw right now. They aren't going to back down from your puny AR 15. There are too many of them, and they are better armed than you. That is a stupid remark. What we need are more Border Patrol agents. But tax cuts for the rich are far more important. If our military did have so many soldiers deployed to the Middle East, we could use them to guard the border. It would also help if all the druggies would stop buying their dope.
Well Michael, your fellow lib said earlier that as a tax payer the ranchers shouldn't get help since they chose to live there (mgm). So if no help, what is one to do. Just let them drug cartels have it.
Maybe they would be safer and earn more money if they just rented the house and land out to the cartels. Since libs damn them for wanting help and damn them if they want to protect their families and land. WTF is a person suppose to do.
From underneath the one with "yellow brain dead leftist liberals gather here" written on top of it!
Micheal:
You have never been in a war have you? or in the service?
I can see by your defeatist attitude you should just give up, not resist, and everything will be fine?
People like you is why America is getting weaker with every generation.
You make yourself a target and endanger everyone around you.
You're and idiot Dave. Sorry but it's true - you are jack @!$%# @!$%#ing stupid.
40 years in, it hasn't change. Banning alcohol failed too. What makes you think it will ever work? Americans value their freedom over your FAILED 'War on Drugs.'