Jenny Mcarthy's screaming how vaccines are bad and cause horrible side effects.

Is that who you get your advise from?

The CDC recommends vaccinating young children, but the message about booster shots for older children and adults is not.

...is not what? Do you feeble minded NBCNews.com writers ever, ever, proofread or edit your articles? Exactly what good does the above statement do for anyone if the sentence has not been complete? Jeez!

Sounds like someone needs a valium.

I second that. This is not as good as a scientific study, but when I had it, it was bad and getting worse after 4 weeks. I took as much vitamin C as my body would tolerate comfortably. This dose was about 1/2 of the suggested mega dose. I was nearly 100% better in a couple of days.

Some will argue that the infection usually lasts 4-5 weeks, which could make the vitamin c a coincidence. I can tell you however that I felt the results within 3-4 hours of taking the vitamin c, which suggests to me that the supplement caused my recovery, rather than following it.

Baldenario - I've quoted studies and facts. What I've said (below) about the disease process comes straight from NIH, CDC and etc websites on how the disease progresses, and what occurs within the disease.

Refute me with scientific data, and then we can talk...

Otherwise, your opinion is, thankfully, none of my business.

E.Aurore- In the paper you referenced they suggest earlier vaccinations and more of the population being vaccinated.

@E.Aurore:

You are a psychopath for spreading this nonsense, really . . .

Really! :-o

E. Aurore - you need to go back to school and learn to read. The reference that you cite says absolutely nothing about treating the disease with Vitamin C. The article that you cite makes the following statement under "Treatment and Prevention".

The ideal sstrategy for pertussis vaccination includes universal vaccinations against pertussis at regular intervals throughout life.

It recommends different combinations of antibiotics as treatment. There is no mention whatsoever of Vitamin C. You should not be spreading falsehoods on a public forum where unsuspecting people might take your biased, unsubstantiated "medical advice".

Baldenario - If the CDC came out and said vaccines were dangerous and no would should get them E.Aurore would be at his alternative doctor the next day demanding to be given every vaccine and then commenting that ever since he was vaccinated he has never been sick.

ABC - Please go back and read - looking for quotations marks around what I was pulling from the first article. Next, pay attention to what is not in quotes following. Notice the break in thought...

I then said:

"The BEST treatment for Pertussis is Vit C. Google

"THE VITAMIN C TREATMENT OF WHOOPING COUGH

By: Suzanne Humphries, M.D." "

If you will Google that, you will find the info on Vit C. I never said it was in the other two studies. In the above several comments I have referenced 3 articles - each for a different reason - one re the vaccination vs non vaccination rates of actual cases of Pertussis. One re the use of Vit C as treatment. And the Third, re the efficacy rate of the vaccination.

My point, Kirk, is I used to be afraid of Whooping cough - knowing that the vaccine is not effective, and knowing the risk of getting it was higher than some of the other infectious diseases. It's a scary disease. It damages the lungs, and the damage can be long term.

I am no longer afraid of it, cause I know how to treat it. I even know how to treat an infant who isn't yet old enough to have the vaccine.... There's no longer the fear associated - should I get it from someone not vaccinated, or someone vaccinated (which is the more likely source - according to the data presented)

AND - If you read the articles above, you would see that NO the non vax folks are NOT the ones to blame... Perhaps the change in pertussis vaccine is to blame, perhaps... HOWEVER, they made that change not because of a lot of crazies complaining, but because of the high amount of ADVERSE REACTIONS reported - which takes a DOCTOR to do. The fact is, there were serious adverse reactions associated with the whole cell vaccine. There was just cause - verifiable, medically documented reasons for the change.

I am no longer afraid of it, cause I know how to treat it. I even know how to treat an infant who isn't yet old enough to have the vaccine..

If youve never had a severe case of it, then you would change your mind.

You ever been walking around talking to someone and had such a fit that you had to throw up? Yea that was common, not all cases are the same, but that can happen and an infant cant live through that.

E. Aurore:

You are a psychopath who is spreading dangerous nonsense, really . . .

Really! :-(

I have no doubt that it was terrible for you, and I'm not making light of it, however, I would ask - How did you treat it?
Did you follow the typical "antibiotics/steroids" route? or did you use Vit C in specific and large doses? or did you do something else?

The reason I'm not afraid of it is because I've taken the time to understand how the pertussis bacteria works within the body, what causes the coughing, why it is so severe, and what can be done about it.
The simple answer is Vitamin C will keep the disease from being severe - but Google this article title: "The Vitamin C Treatment of Whooping Cough" for the details.

I hope you get the memo that you caught it then. When you catch it (which youll be lucky enough that you wont) tell me how it was and how you treated it. But if you catch it in a severe case, you wont be so smug about it.

See below Trudat - dealing with it now... Positive diagnosis from the doctor, follow up with the health officials, unfortunately, part of the current statistics.
Treating with Vit C successfully. It's no walk in the park, but it's not the end of life either.

and you didn't answer my question - How did you treat your pertussis??

and you didn't answer my question - How did you treat your pertussis??

It was 6 years ago, my gf diagnosed us and the doctors didnt believe it. She also had a case that wasnt even 1/100th as bad as mine. That is my point, the severity is case based, you are lucky, she had it for about 2 months and never very severe, just some coughing. I had attacks that would cause vomitting and i couldnt sit for months. That only lasted for 4-5 months, if that short.

Im saying youre being naive, you think because you are lucky with it you dont have to worry about it. You can risk yourself and your kids all you want, im just informing others that your "remedy" may not be sufficient for everyone, so their best chance is to avoid whooping cough.

Basically, what you think may have worked for you, may not work for everyone, i dont wish my case on anyone, so id rather convince people to protect themselves from it.

I am not recommending Vit C just because it is currently working for me. I am recommending it because it has been clinically proven to work. The first studies done were in the early 1900's prior to the introduction of vaccines (and can be found on seanet dot com), and of course, clinical trials have continued since.
Again, do the google search for the phrase I listed above (I am unable to post straight links or I would) and read about Vit C therapy yourself.
Even the University of Maryland Medical Center recommends Vit C as part of the appropriate treatment for Pertussis on their website. I'm not suggesting something that is off or loony, nor based on MY experience.
I'd much rather let the science prove itself.

So, vaccines are alleged to not be as effective as they used to be. Let me ask you this: If a vaccine is 90% effective against smallpox (and let's say smallpox is rampant again) and 10% likely to fail, would you take it? What if the vaccine was 80%, or only 60 or 50% likely to save your life if you were to come into contact with it?

We expect that vaccines are always going to have the same level of effectiveness (whether changed or unchanged). But viruses change, just like humans do. They're living. So, if by chance (and yes I have been reading some of the posts) some people are reporting they've been contracting whooping cough while vaccinated, is it possible that not only is the vaccine less effective due to changes within the vaccine to make it more safer, but the virus itself has mutated, or we have mutated?

Antibiotics are for bacterial infections. Vaccines are for viruses. Don't take an antibiotic if you have a virus. Support your immune system by boosting your vitamin C intake, ensure you're getting enough Bs and garlic etc, but don't overdose yourself. You can overdose on vitamins too. Not sure about Vitamin C, but if we're talking extreme dosing, I'm sure it's possible.

We rely on hedge vaccination in the respect that people who are able to receive the vaccination (not likely to have adverse reactions based on previous vaccines or family history or other illness) receive them. If the hedge breaks down, those that really shouldn't get the vaccine lose their safety net and we see a return of diseases in the modern world that we thought we'd basically kissed goodbye (except for lab specimens). We also rely on the vaccines being good enough to provide a better-than-nothing level of protection. It doesn't mean be complacent. With whooping cough as contagious as it is, perhaps the vaccine people have received is still doing better than they think.

I mean, do you think you'll ever trust a vaccine in your lifetime (if they come out with one) that is supposed to prevent cancer? And yet people are now being vaccinated against HPV in the hope that it prevents cervical cancers, and others that may be tied to the HPV virus. There aren't great longitudinal studies on this, but they're trying their damnest.

Good points - thank you for taking the time to speak intelligently to the subjects at hand.

One thing to remember tho - Whooping Cough/Pertussis is not a virus, it's a bacteria. The HiB vaccine for Meningitis is also targeting a bacteria. While most vaccines are for virus, those two are not.

In a sick patient, no, an overdose on Vit C is not an issue because the body uses the Vit C as fast as you can get it in. Now, in a healthy person - that's another story.

Vaccines are for viruses.

Silver Nailpolish - you have you facts about as straight as E. Aurore. Pertussis is not caused by a virus. It is caused by the Bordetella pertussis bacteria. That fact is clearly stated in the article. Vaccines are not just for viruses. Vaccines are merely a method by which a disease-causing organism, or part thereof, is introduced into the body to stimulate the immune system to recognize it as foreign.

Again E.Aurore the University of Maryland Medical Center does not recommend Vit C as part of the appropriate treatment for Pertussis on their website.

They do include Vit C as part of appropriate treatment - not the ONLY treatment - but part of the treatment - AND the point being here would be that to suggest Vit C is not LOONY. The previously recommended article by Suzanne Humphries, MD could be seen as "alternative medicine" and therefore dismissed. My point here is, even a mainstream medical facility is including Vit C as part of appropriate treatment.

Here's the quote - (to find the article google - University of Maryland Medical Center Pertussis :
"

Treatment Options:

Whooping cough can be deadly to a baby under 6 months of age, and can cause complications even in toddlers. A baby with pertussis should be treated immediately by a doctor. In adults, treatment is largely to control symptoms and prevent spreading. Quarantine, IV fluids and nutrition, oxygen, and a ventilator may be needed in some cases.

Drug Therapies

• Antibiotics -- reduce transmission and shorten the duration of the illness. Azithromycin (Zithromax) or erythromycin are often prescribed.
• Corticosteroids such as betamethasone (0.075 mg daily per kilogram of body weight) -- may reduce severity and length of coughing fits, especially in infants.
• Albuterol (0.3 - 0.5 mg daily per kilogram of body weight) -- reduces the severity of coughing fits.

Over-the-counter cough suppressants have no effect and should not be used, especially in children under 2.

Surgical and Other Procedures

Suctioning of secretions, oxygen, IV fluids, and electrolytes are used for infants and adults at risk for longer illness.

Mist by tent may help infants.

Complementary and Alternative Therapies

Pertussis should be treated with antibiotics. Do not rely on herbs and supplements alone, especially for children. Supplements, herbs, and homeopathy may help you recover faster when used along with conventional medications. Always talk with your doctor if you are using alternative therapies in addition to medication.

Nutrition

Note: Doses given are for children. Adults should double the amounts.

Give small, frequent meals of vegetable broths, steamed vegetables, and fresh fruit (especially pineapple and grapes).

Vitamin C (200 - 500 mg two times per day. Children over 4 can have up to 3,000 mg per day in divided doses for short periods of time), zinc (10 - 15 mg per day), and beta-carotene (10,000 - 25,000 IU per day). Be sure to use beta-carotene and not vitamin A. Ask your doctor before giving vitamin supplements to a child.

Read more: #ixzz21DcaVR1O"

If you think its the equivalent of a cold, then you arent experiencing whooping cough. Id rather kill myself then have it as severely as i did again. 4-5months of not being able to sit and throwing up during coughing fits is not treatable by breastfeeding and vitamin c. Just consider yourself lucky, but dont try to teach other people how to handle it.

E. Aurore:

You are a psychopath who is spreading dangerous nonsense, really . . .

Really! :-(

No - I didn't say that I was experiencing a cold - I said treat any infant with a cold with vit C - BECAUSE Pertussis starts with typical cold symptoms - which is why it takes so long to diagnose it, and part of why it gets spread, because no one thinks anything of running a fever for a couple of days with a runny nose, and an annoying tickle in the back of your throat cough. The BAD coughing comes later - often weeks later. In our case, 4 weeks later is when the aweful cough began.

Baldenario - I've quoted studies and facts. What I've said (above) about the disease process comes straight from NIH, CDC and etc websites on how the disease progresses, and what occurs within the disease.

Refute me with scientific data, and then we can talk...

Otherwise, your opinion is, thankfully, none of my business.

E. Aurore You have not quoted studies and facts. Come up with actual scientific data (not cherry picked or out of context) or shut up.

BTW - Go back and look at my first comments on this board - I pulled info from 3 separate articles. However there are many more I could have pulled from. I"m not going to quote the ENTIRE articles or studies here. I assume the readers are intelligent enough to read them all on their own and come to their own well thought conclusions.

But to give some more food for thought - on the same subject of Percent of confirmed cases in the vaccinated vs unvaccinated group - see the following article - Pertussis Vaccine for Whooping Cough Effects at
articles dot mercola dot com slash sites slash articles slash archive/2012/04/17/pertussis-vaccine-for-whooping-cough-effects dot aspx

A study which suggests the vaccine itself may be responsible for the upswing in whooping cough rates, from PennStates Center for Infectious Disease Dynamics website titled
"Acellular pertussis vaccination enhances B. parapertussis colonization" Summary - An acellular whooping cough vaccine actually enhances the colonization of Bordetella parapertussis in mice; pointing towards a rise in B. parapertussis incidence resulting from acellular vaccination, which may have contributed to the observed increase in whooping cough over the last decade.

For more on the use of Vit C as it's been studied prior to vaccinations and since -

ASCORBIC ACID (VITAMIN C) TREATMENT OF WHOOPING COUGH
From the Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg.
By M. J. ORMEROD, M.B. and Byron M. UNKAUF, M.D., B.Sc.(Med.)

Journal of Applied Nutrition Vol. 23, No's 3 & 4, Winter 1971
Observations On the Dose and Administration of Ascorbic Acid When Employed Beyond the Range of A Vitamin in Human Pathology
Frederick R. Klenner, M.D., F,C,C.P.

And, for further food for thought see:

"Whooping Cough infections are common in an immunized population." Journal of the American Medical Association, 1998

"In 1979 Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times." British Medical Journal 283:696-697, 1981

"For an individual child the risk is greater from the whooping cough vaccine than the disease." Dr. Joanne Hatem, Medical Director, Vaccine National Information Center, Virginia

"In the USA in 1978, they mandated vaccination it resulted in a three fold increase in the reported incidence of whooping cough." Viera Scheibner PhD showing graphs from Tokai Journal of Experimental Biology and Medicine, 1988

In The New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under five years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

"Dutch scientists are struggling to identify the exact cause of an epidemic of whooping cough that has swept throughout the country despite vaccination rates as high as 96% ("despite" or because of?) Similar problems are being reported in Norway and Denmark." British Medical Journal, 1998

Good thought! I got polio the year before the Salk vacine came out.I spent entire year in hospital of in bed at home! I'm one of the lucky one with no residual effect.Well ,none that are apparent! Immuzine all children! I knew a couple hundred keds growing up and none had a food allergy.Today,every other kid is allergic to peanuts,one of the healthiest foods on our earth.Too many parents"stir" their kids to their allergies rather than leaving them alone to let the body develope natural immunities to foreign foods ! It all the end result of too many lawyers and not enough sense!How many of you who are older than 45,knew any other child with severe allergies to foods?

I am way over 45, and when I was a kid, no one had allergies, except for the occasional 'hay fever'. My youngest brother, babied and coddled and spoiled, developed asthma, and there were many that 'jokingly' said it was because he was...babied and coddled and spoiled. I have since found this to be more or less true in others: find an allergy, and you will find a neurosis.

It has been proven that highly sterile environments for infants prevents them from developing natural immunities to bacteria, and causes health problems later on, so I have to say I'm with you mas098. I think parents essentially have everything to do with the illnesses that kids develop, mentally and physically.

Yeah, folks, allergies are autoimmune, and it is thought by many that fooling with the immune system (specifically the adjevunct squalene, found in vaccines which artificially triggers your immune system to over react to the injected pathogens) might just be the cause of all these kid's allergies? Think about it, your generation, almost no vaccines, almost no allergies, this generation? Shots galore, and tons of allergies....duh.

mas098 I am 60 years old and have had several severe food allergies since I was 2 years old. I knew many allergic people in my lifetime. So, no, food allergies are not new. Neither are ineffective vacines. Polio is one for example that went through two formulas before the right one was found. After that we found out 40 years later that it didn't provide the immunity everyone thought and many of us boomers have contracted polio later in life. Vacinations have always been controversial. Many of our parents didn't trust the government and its medicine. Many children suffered side effects in the early years.

That does not change the fact that vacinations have been effective and important overall for the vast majority. They have given us the ability to raise several generations of children now without having to live through the fears that our parents did of watching a disease like pertussis take child after child after child.

Its msnbc, its a liberal "news" source, facts dont affect them.

They are out of business! I hope all those losers who were constantly writing articles, about gays/lebanese on a daily basis, all got a one year passes to gay bath houses!

mas...I think you mean "gay/lesbian" not "gay/lebanese". Lesbians are female gay individuals; Lebanese are people from Lebanon. You know, in the Mid-East.

If you're gonna dis someone, at least be accurate.

Yeah, but it's going to be much more expensive if you contract the disease and have to pay for treatment and possible hospitalization.

Who took medical advice from a stripper? Do you really think that everyone who chooses not to vaccinate does so because of some celebrity?? Climb out of your box, and really listen to what non-vaxxers are saying, the reports they are discussing, the reasons behind their choices. It would substantially help your argument to know your audience - and that statement makes it clear, you don't know your audience, and your argument falls flat.

Did I say "everyone" took advice from a stripper? No. But a great many did and that's pathetic.

I'm familiar with what the "non-vaxxers" (really?) are saying and I don't agree with them. I don't really feel obligated to get to know them better. Nor do I feel obligated to argue. You believe whatever you want to believe over there and I'll believe whatever I want to believe over here and life will go on. Except, of course, for those people in the future who contract some mundane disease that we used to control via vaccines and croaks.

E. Aurore, yes everyone who bags on people who do not vaccinate think we all get our health information from a playboy bunny and a debunked doctor. so apparently the generations way before us also got their information from jenny mccarthy as a baby and before the debunked medical doctor even graduated elementary school, or for that matter before they were even born. I get so tired of that same line from people who don't want to see the truth. How about everyone on this page open up the package insert and see ALL the ingredients and side effects, as well as the efficacy rate, and also look up the clinical trials. once you start researching the clinical trials you will see just how rigged these vaccines are. I know, lets compare kids with the vaccine to kids with an aluminum solution. oh, they all get the same reactions, alright lets get this immediately to production so we can say that there were no adverse reactions and it is perfectly unavoidably unsafe. yup, that's it.

The population of narrow minded, pea-brained right wingNUTS will be thinned since they think chemicals are good. Culling the Conservative right wingNUTS is a good thing.