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Subscribe to RSSIn the middle of a presidential election year, there's a big debate between Democrats and Republicans, and law enforcement and ranchers, over how much violence from the Mexican drug war has spilled over into the United States, making it hard to get straight answers. NBC's Mark Potter reports.
By Mark Potter, NBC News correspondent
TUCSON -- On an isolated ranch 10 miles from the Mexican border in southern Arizona, Tangye Beckham worries about what the night will bring. That's usually when her family's 100-acre ranch begins to crawl with drug and immigrant traffickers from Mexico heading north into the United States.
"They're belligerent, they carry weapons," she said. "It's a nightly problem with them being on the property. They've already tried to break in."
Recently, as she was closing one of her gates in the pre-dawn hours, Beckham found herself surrounded by a group of illegal immigrants and feared being attacked. By running to her car, she said, she was able to get away, badly shaken.
Two mountain ranges away, ranchers Christin Peterson and Sonny McCuistion have the same problem with armed Mexican smugglers crossing their properties. "It's upsetting and there's a lot of them. It hasn't decreased; there's a lot of traffic," said Peterson.
Steve McCraw, the Texas Director of Public Safety, says that there is a significant criminal threat from Mexico drug cartels that are smuggling drugs throughout his state and the nation.
All three ranchers scoffed at claims from Washington that crime along the U.S. side of the Mexican border has dropped dramatically and that the area is safer than ever. "They don't know what they're talking about," McCuistion replied.
Beckham, a flight paramedic and firefighter, urged Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano to pay a visit to her ranch.
"I'll show her it's not a secure border," Beckham said. "I'll have her talk to my kids. And they can tell her how afraid they are, that they don't wanna go out after dark."
Southwest border among ‘safest areas in the United States,’ Napolitano says
Texas Department of Public Safety
Officers surround a truck loaded with marijuana in South Texas during a drug bust on the U.S.-Mexico border.
Along the Mexican border, an easy way to get into a fierce debate is to ask a simple question: "How much violence and crime linked to Mexican drug traffickers has spilled over into the United States?"
As it turns out, the answer varies wildly and depends on who you talk to, especially in a presidential election year when border security and immigration are sensitive topics. The argument is further complicated by the failure of federal and state law enforcement officials to even agree over how to define spillover violence and other related crimes.
"The danger in not having an accurate accounting of spillover violence is that we fail to see that our cities, American cities, are permeated by Mexican drug cartels who are heavily armed, who are criminals involved in multiple different enterprises," said Howard Campbell, an anthropology professor at the University of Texas at El Paso who has studied the drug cartels extensively.
The Obama administration, joined by some local officials and sheriffs, claim that because of a sizeable increase in the federal law enforcement presence along the border, crime there has dropped dramatically and the border is safer than it's ever been.
“Everything that we are seeing along our nation’s Southwest border point to a much safer border today than it has been over the last 20 years,” said David Aguilar, acting commissioner for U.S. Customs and Border Protection. “It is not a war zone; it is not a border completely out of control.”
David Aguilar, Acting Commissioner for U.S. Customs and Border Protection, says the American side of U.S. Mexico border is safest in years.
Federal officials cite the FBI Uniform Crime Report, which includes data on murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault, when claiming that border-area crime has actually dropped by more than in other cities far from the border.
"This [Obama] administration has deployed unprecedented resources to the Southwest border," said Napolitano during a news conference last month in McAllen, Texas. "The violent crime in these areas has gone down significantly. These are among the safest areas in the United States."
The Homeland Security Secretary said the horrific violence from the Mexican drug war, in which it's estimated that as many as 50,000 people have been killed, is a serious security concern for U.S. authorities. But she insisted that very little of it has spilled over into the United States.
"That kind of violence we have not seen," Napolitano said. "While we may not be able to prevent every murder from occurring, I think we can be ahead of, and will be ahead of, any kind of systemic violence."
Larry W. Smith / EPA, file
A U.S. Border Patrol agent inspects bundles of marijuana recovered after searching the brush along the Rio Grand river, near McAllen, Texas on Feb. 8, 2012. Smugglers brought the drugs across the river in rafts. The nearly two thousand mile United States-Mexico border is the most frequently crossed international border in the world.
During a speech last year in El Paso, President Obama noted the U.S. Border Patrol now has a record 22,000 agents along the Southwest border. "We have strengthened border security beyond what many believed was possible," he told a cheering crowd. "We have more boots on the ground on the Southwest border than at any time in our history."
Obama even joked during his speech about Republican critics who call for even tougher security measures along the border. "Maybe they'll need a moat, maybe they want alligators in the moat. They'll never be satisfied. And I understand that, that's politics."
Opposing view: border ‘more dangerous than it’s ever been’
In Cochise County, Ariz., which shares an 84-mile-long border with Mexico, Sheriff Larry Dever was among many border officials who did not laugh at President Obama's joke about moats and alligators. "I can't tell you how angry it made not only me, but my constituents, to make a mockery of one of the most serious situations we face in our entire lifetime," he said. "I'd say the border is more dangerous than it's ever been."
Dever has lost four friends -- three police officers and a rancher -- to cartel violence, and insists Mexican traffickers crossing into his county are well-armed and much more aggressive now than they were just a few years ago. "We're getting overrun from the south, because the federal government isn't doing its job," he said.
The long-time sheriff argued that the FBI Uniform Crime Report statistics cited by the White House fail to include many of the crimes committed by traffickers, including kidnapping, extortion, public corruption, drug and human smuggling, and trespassing. "I invite them to come down here, come live with us and go camp out at some rancher's house and see what happens at night," he said. When asked if anyone from Washington had ever agreed to do that, Dever said, "Heck no, they come for photo ops.”.
Cherry-picking border statistics?
At the Austin headquarters for the Texas Department of Public Safety, director Steve McCraw, a former FBI supervisor and counter-terrorism specialist, studied a chart on the wall filled with red and green dots indicating where drug and money seizures have been made around the state.
"The border's not secure, clearly. I think by any indication it's not secure," he said. "We've identified 25 murders that are cartel-related, we've identified 124 kidnappings and extortions that are cartel-related. We know of 61 instances in which cartel members shot at police officers while they're on the river trying to interdict trucks."
McCraw agreed with Dever that federal officials often use incomplete statistics to defend their arguments about border safety. "You can't cherry pick your statistics," he said. "We've got a duty to be very accurate about what's going on now and how we see the current threat."
According to Congressional testimony in 2009 and 2011, the current federal interagency definition of Mexican spillover violence is: "…deliberate, planned attacks by the cartels on U.S. assets, including civilian, military, or law enforcement officials or physical institutions such as government buildings, consulates or businesses. This definition does not include trafficker on trafficker violence, whether perpetrated in Mexico or the U.S."
Many state officials say trafficker on trafficker violence should not be excluded, because cartel shootouts seen in Texas, Arizona and other states can put civilians in danger and in fear for their lives. "That's ludicrous," said McCraw. "Any time there's a murder, an assassination, or the death squads of ‘sicarios’ come over here and try to do a takeover like that, there's always consequences in that neighborhood."
McCraw, Dever and other regional officials argue that all crimes linked to Mexican traffickers should be gathered to assess the true scope of border threats so that law enforcement needs can more accurately be determined.
With presidential elections scheduled this year in both the United States and Mexico, the successes and failures of border security efforts have also come under intense scrutiny by the political campaigns.
"I think political assessments of the border have been very slanted, whether it be Democratic or Republican -- Democrats claiming everything is peaceful and quiet, no problem, Republicans arguing that the situation on the border is out of control with spillover violence," said Campbell of the University of Texas at El Paso.
Professor Howard Campbell of the University of Texas at El Paso says the claim that the U.S. Mexico border is safer than ever may be exaggerated.
Campbell said even though there have been relatively few homicides in the United States committed by Mexican traffickers, there is definitely a lot of other crime.
"There has been a spillover of crime and drug trafficking culture and a greater amount of violent encounters between Mexican drug traffickers and U.S. Border Patrol agents and other agents of the U.S. government," he said. "I think claiming the border is safer than ever is absurd."
As for the failure between federal and state officials to agree on how to define the problem, Campbell says it is important to understand the issues in a "scientific, clear way," and to make effective policies based on that. He also suggested that collecting crime statistics is not the only way to gather this important information.
"I think it would be better to talk to people who actually live on that border that experience this on a day to day basis," he said.
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Pull the troops home from Afghanistan and militarize the border. That's what you do with a war zone, and that's what Mexico is. No point in sugar-coating that turd.
Do like the Russians did at the East German border prior to the wall coming down.......mine fields and machine gun towers everywhere along our southern border wth Mexico..................
"The argument is further complicated by the failure of federal and state law enforcement officials to even agree over how to define spillover violence and other related crimes." A further arguement is that our congressional reps are much more concerned with possible votes than protecting this nation...Some of these illegals may have relatives in the staes that happen to be legal...a vote against illegals might mean a loss of a vote..and you can bet..congress is very concerned with votes if nothing else.
Presidents Taft and Wilson put Regular Army troops on the border with Mexico between 1913 and 1919, to stop the depredations being visited upon American citizens by Mexican nationals. We have the same situation today, except now the names are Felix, Fuentes and Guzman instead of Pancho Villa. (Note: the debate in the article is not about whether violence by Mexicans is occurring in the U.S., but how much.) I'd say it's about time for the 100-year reunion.
I have the solution. Land mines. form a perimiter with warning signs on your property cross at your own risk, explosive devices armed.
When they see thier amigo getting a dose of a daisy cutter they will think twice about ignoring the signs next time.
Not super serious about the first idea(just fed up), only because innocents could be hurt, but if you cross barb wire and ignore warning signs and pictures then your fate is nobodies fault but your own.
Another less drastic idea,lol, would be to have giant spotlights on towers with motion detectors set away from the lights in random places. Even if the animals set them off they will be effective in outing the position of the interlopers. Web cameras in these locations would also work in conjunction with lights. Loud speakers to warn them of further intrusions.
Lives are being lost so drastic measures should be taken by these property owners to protect their family, and their property and livelihood.
Daisy cutters weren't land mines - they were BLU-82s, a fuel-air mixture bomb used by the military to clear forests so helicopters can land. And more recently to kill terrorists in caves with blast overpressures.
Daisy Cutters is a term used at least since WWII and did refer to landmines, not just air delivered munitions.
militarize the border? put up a wall?yeah we have money for that
All we need to do is mandate e-verify to make it impossible for illegals to work anywhere in this country. Also, make employers pay tremendous fines for hiring illegals. The last thing we can do is get rid of entitlements (section 8 housing, food stamps, etc.) Then we legalize marijuana and allow personal consumption amounts of other drugs.
In effect, this will dramatically reduce all the problems at the border.
The US should also look into placing more restrictions in Mexico-US travel. Why should driving to and from mexico be like driving to wisconsin? Anytime people go to Mexico it should be as if they are going to south america, asia or europe - passport stamped, luggage searched, car searched and questions asked.
No, still wrong. It referred exclusively to air-delivered munitions in that the "daisy cutter" bomb had a fuse that allowed it to detonate at ground level rather than in the ground. The term is not used for land mines.
This president could care less about those people on the border. Their living in Texas and Arizona, and we know he could give a crap about them! He considers them second class nobodys. Why, People from these two states had the nerve to disagree with some of his declarations. Only those people who honor and obey his will, will be given any help. But, you can bet your butt, if any of these ranchers try and protect their property, and kill someone, obama will be right there, to make sure they pay. He has to be the biggest joke ever. Lets put him on the border in a camper, by himself, for two weeks. See how he feels about that. I mean, he says it's safer then ever!
Chris - exactly right.
The Governors of California Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas can call up the state guard units for domestic emergencies in each of those states. So why don't they? Perry is such a state's rights kind of guy, why doesn't he call them up. If the Federal government won't do it, do it yourselves. Illegal crossings just didn't start in 2008.
But, but, but, aren't they just trying for a better life? /s
Devil's...the Obama administration has made it perfectly clear they will sue any state that tries to do anything under federal jurisdiction, and especially if the feds aren't doing anything about it in the first place.
While you are right, the states can call up the Guard and they could put them on the border. Arizona does not because if they do the State of Arizona and it's citizens must pay to do the job the federal government is charged to do under the Constitution.
Get Odumbass off his backside, have him enforce the federal immigration laws law with the federal funds he collects from us all as the constution reqiures him to do. If he won't do his job-throw-his-lazy-black-ass out of office.
yeah...those ranchers also say that the 'muslim in chief' was born in kenya. if the guy in the white house had an R next to his name, the violence would still be there, but i will put money down that they wouldnt be blaming it on 'the feds'.
Zaruski,
That is pure bulls*** speculation. Please provide evidence of your absurd claim.
Bring the troops home and put them on the border with instructions to shoot first and ask questions later. How about putting the TSA on the border, I'm sure they could identify any wrong doers.
I sucks that we armed them so well. The NRA should be proud.
I dare Janet to walk alone at night on these ranches for a couple of nights and report back how safe she felt assuming she survives.
"The argument is further complicated by the failure of federal and state law enforcement officials to even agree over how to define spillover violence and other related crimes." Well, I'll make it very simple to comprehend for the Feds: the act of crossing the border illegally is a crime. Ergo, they are all criminals and should be treated as such. But I guess BamBam and his Barack-olytes will continue to cherry-pick the crime numbers from the areas where the numbers are favorable to them and keep ignoring ranchers like Beckham, Peterson, and McCuistion who have to live through this garbage every day.
Ron Paul has been right all along: Bring the troops home from foreign soil and police the Mexican boarder.
I kind of like the alligators in a moat idea myself.................
.....maybe some sharks..................
........with laser beams on their heads..............
Chris" at a baby"
theCavalier said:
"I sucks that we armed them so well. The NRA should be proud."
I think you mean Eric Holder and his fiasco of "Fast and Furious" and the gun running by the ATF to Mexico.
It's truly despicable that American citizen ranchers are being terrorized on a daily basis in southern Arizona on their own property as a direct result of our federal government's refusal to secure the border and this Administration's commitment to incentiving further immigration lawbreaking by expressly pledging rewards for immigration lawbreakers! Disgusting!!!
Americans across the political spectrum (including this life-long Democrat) are waking up to the fact that our leaders (both Republican and Democratic) have failed to protect us from a foreign invasion. But, it is particularly reprehensible that the current Administration (for which I voted in '08) is advocating for retroactive rewards for immigration lawbreaking and, in fact, is granting de facto amnesty by refusing to enforce existing laws (and is suing states which are trying to enforce the equivalent of existing federal law). This issue will factor in HUGE in Election 2012, as Americans are FED UP!
A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERABLE!
Does it bother anyone else to hear the President making jokes and laughing in the face of these officials who have livedi n these counties on the border and are all waving red flags and yelling it is getting worse, more dangerous, and the side effects are being seen all across this nation? He is mocking and laughing and so were the other people with him!!! This upsets and worries me more then anything else in this story!!!
theCavalier
Excuse me, but it was the US Attorney General Eric Holder and his minions at the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives that armed the Mexican Drug cartels through the infamous Fast and Furious debacle, which of course they claim no knowledge of.
So, please take your NRA bashing to the Department of Justice where it truly belongs.
Rebublicans want cheap labor, Democrats want Latino votes - and that is why the border is unprotected, while trillions of dollars are wasted on the 'war on terror' SCAM!
Zaruski, I'm a conservative republican but unlike you and people like you, if the person in office regardless of party is a screw-up, I and any republican I know make it known we do not agree and will say and vote to make our feelings known. I have never fallen in love with any politican because of what party he does or does not belong to. It appears you think what is happening to our border is OK because you have fallen in love and your love can do no wrong. I have judged your man-love by his deeds and his character and not the color of his skin and I found he not doing what's good for America. If it wasn't so important for you to always be right maybe you could see this for yourself.
I have a better idea, lets have that joke of a president Osama, I mean Obama police the border. Then we won't have to worry about him being elected in November....the drug cartel and bandito's can show him that everything is OK in the southwest border towns.
So true Max 108 #1.28)--- NO LEADER IS STANDING FOR THE RIGHTS OF THE AMERICAN (or LEGAL immigrant) workers! Romney is pledging to do so--- but will he maintain his commitment?!!???
First I think the Cartels are disgusting. Second we should do more to end the War On Drugs. Third it does not matter how many boots are on the ground.
The only way to stop CARTELS is to end dependency on the product the Cartels sell. No Demand no need for the supply. Illegal immigrants are for the most part not looking to smuggle drugs. The cartels are a bye product of our nations addiction problems. How easy it is to just blame those other people. With out taking responsibility for our nations problem.
You all do know that the Cartels sell to American Drug dealers Bikers and Gang members. We have been fighting the war on Drugs since NIXON. And the harder we make it for the Cartels to get the supply up the bloodier it gets.
We should have kept the Cartels in Columbia and those other country's at least then the bloodshed was further away. This is/was not just Obama's problem its been going on for decades. If there is Money to be made people on both sides of our border will find a way to get it no matter the cost.
So if we really want to understand how this effects our Nation as a whole. We must first think of all the players. Gun makers sell Arms which Americans buy and sell to Mexican gunrunners. The cartels buy those guns illegaly in Mexico. And arm muscle. They buy drugs (import) and grow drugs and manufacture drugs in Mexico. They pay mules both American and Mexican people to smuggle it into our country. They pay Law enforcement to look the other way take bribes for intel.
They pay cops judges and lawyers here in the USA for the same thing to look the other way. Then American Drug dealers buy trade sell for supply with American dope fiends.
Then the prison system. One of the biggest markets. Yes they get dope in prison. Plus the prison gangs protection rackets.
ok you get the point this whole war has even congressional members getting paid by lobbyists to make Gun sales easier. To make more prisons. to keep drug related crimes high and huge long sentences for abusers. It is way bigger than 1 rancher in AZ being scared.
End the drug war and the nonsense limits on legal immigration; problem solved.
Max^108
Finally, a fellow American who sees the light. This is a bigger issue than Republican vs. Democrat. I wish 99% of the populace would wake up to this truth.
this is what i would do if i lived on the border and people were trespassing on my land..
i would get a high power sniper rifle, equipped with a night vision scope and take out the drug mules one by one, until they realized this area was not a good idea to cross.. hahaha
Joe B.-758292--Let me make this very simple to comprehend for you. If you drive over the speed limit, you are a criminal--can we treat you as such? If your neighbor did a renovation to his/her home and did not get the proper permits, then your neighbor is a criminal. If the person down the street parks a car on the lawn (and that is illegal where you live), that person is a criminal. Can we treat you all "as such"?
What do you mean when you say "should be treated as such"? Criminals get arrested, in some cases they are fined and in some cases they get other sentences. That's it, because we live in a country that is governed by laws. A person who is identified as an alien can seek permission to stay due to refugee status or because s/he is seeking asylum. A person who cannot qualify for either of these is deported. That is, crossing a border is a reason for you to get sent back across the border--and that's about it, Joe.
The main problem with people talking about this question is that they really don't know what they are talking about. Crossing a border without proper paperwork means you get sent home--that's it. It happens all the time all around the world, and in countries that aren't quite as isolated as ours, people really have a much better grip on the issue.
In any case, why are we conflating issues with a drug-smuggling route with issues about illegal immigration? A drug-smuggling route issue is not something that the "feds" need to handle in terms of border control--this is a drug-smuggling route issue caused by the fact that the "feds" have, in fact, made the border more secure.
If this area were as dangerous as the people claim it is, then the people would not live there but would live in a nearby city. They would then go, in daylight, to the area to do their ranching. They would be heavily armed (perfectly legal in Arizona), with a shooter on top of their vehicles. That they are still living on their ranches and not that heavily armed kind of tells you all you need to know.
It is very annoying that well-to-do people seem to think that the rest of us are responsible for protecting their personal property when those same well-to-do people make snarky remarks about other people being dependent on the government teat. If they can't afford to protect their own property, then they need to sell it and move away, or they need to move off it and only go in during the daylight. That land can very easily be purchased by a corporation which can then very easily employ security guards to protect it.
There is no indication that the cartels are doing much more than establishing routes across private property because the federal government is doing an excellent job of policing the areas that the cartels used to use. The more the federal government does to close off routes through government land (there's a big nature preserve down there) and public land, the more the cartels are pushed onto private land. Maybe it was better, you know, when the border was a little more fluid and the cartels were able to go through areas that were less populated and not the private ranch land?
I would be armed at all times if I were one of those ranchers (I'm sure they probably are already though) and be trying to find a safer place for the kids to live. There's nothing like living in fear in your own home.
what_the_81: Spot on!
It's a good thing that Mexico has all those draconian anti-gun laws because otherwise the violence would really spiral out of control. For those who would drone on about Holder's and Obama's lie that the majority of guns come from the U.S., by the Mexicans own acknowledgement, they get the vast majority of weaponry from smuggling through Mexico's southern border and from corrupt Mexican military and law enforcement.
I doubt that would work out very well, as soon as the cartel got word you would be beheaded, gutted, perhaps even skinned, and hung from a bridge for all to see.
joeyfromcali, ProIndividual, and beanathome are the only rational posters on this thread. Here here!
@beanathome: You summed up your entire stance with
Maybe it was better, you know, when the border was a little more fluid and the cartels were able to go through areas that were less populated and not the private ranch land?
Poor little drug traffickers being forced to find other ways to get through the boarder areas due to the opression of 'the man'...
And, by the way, it is EXTREMELY expensive and possibly illegal for a private citizen to own a working mounted machine gun. Besides, if the influx of illegal immigrants (yes, this was specifically addressed as an issue in the article) and increased 'heavily armed' smugglers is a result of the government’s actions or inactions then yes, the land owners should expect the government to step in and make it right. I'm sure if a bunch of gang-bangers started using your front lawn as their private hangout at night because the police started cracking down on their usual haunts, you would not accept the solution of: go live somewhere else and only use your lawn during the day when it is safe...
Build a WALL. Not some skimpy fence. Build a wall that is like the one in Israel, or the ones in East Germany. One that cannot easily be dug under or broken. Put guard towers on the wall. Make the towers within sight of each other. Create a 100 yard no mans land on the Mexico side of the wall with a barb wire fence at the border. Each tower would have IR gear so that they could see at night.
Man the towers 24/7. If they see anyone they could call someone and have reinforcements there before they could get over the wall.
Sure, it would cost billions. But this government throws around billions of dollars like it is nothing. They could take it out of the military budget. Just don't replace one ship and it would save plenty for the wall.
To those that say it would be like living in East Germany, that is not the case. In East Germany the guards and no man's land were on the East Germany side to prevent people from leaving. We would reverse it so that we are prevent people form coming in.
I completely agree with you durtybill. What do you expect from our President? He refuses to do anything about what's in front of him and he refuses to help the states control the problem.
So if the problem is because of our use of drugs. And making them legal would solve all the problems? Why not summarily execute anyone caught with any drugs. If you are a drug dealer or drug user, just kill them. Soon people will realize that they do not want to use or sell drugs.
Leave it to the tea partiers to turn any debate into an immigration debate.
Thats the answer to all our problems, just execute anyone you suspect of breaking any crimes...
All these folks choose to live there, and most of these folks are republicans, and its an election ,Presidential, election year...and none of thesr folks voted for this President and they are not going to vote for this President..again it is funny how these stories evolve.
skeptical---Are you serious??????????????????
Obviously the drug smugglers are armed...ask yourself this question, "When did you hear of a drug smuggler being shot?...never happens right...ummm correction...a few years back a border patrol agent shot a fleeing smuggler wounding him in the...part upon which you sit...and the border patrol agent was prosecuted and went to prison...so much for enforcing the law...by force...but since the smugglers are not really very intimidated by harsh language...well it's not surprising what this has come to.
The smugglers are armed so they can intimidate the U.S. citizens living along the border, they know the Border Patrol won't fire on them, so if they are approached they drop their load and run resulting in a win for the Obama Administration (they interdicted a smuggling operation), a draw for the drug smugglers (they live another day to smuggle drugs and intimidate peaceful citizens) and of course a loss for the peaceful citizens (nothing has changed for them, the smugglers are further emboldened).
A suggestion to please everyone:
1. Continually broadcast all along the border the "Miranda Rights", this gets that out of the way and should ...ummm might...satisfy our valiant Attorney General and his boss our esteemed Constitutional Scholar.
2. Establish new military bases along the border and put up signs (in multiple languages) which say; "This is a US Military Base...trespassers not immediately surrendering WILL be shot!
3. Those surrendering will be sent to Guantanamo...we can argue about what to do with them...LATER...those not surrendering...hmm....will be remembered by a medal appropriately awarded.
Seriously border incursions by armed thugs HAS TO STOP! If this administration can't get the job done...it's time for a new one!
Money. They could not afford it. In addition they could be trumped at any time by the the Feds.
why waste good money on a fence that won't work. If corporations and companies do their job and stop hiring them and hiring them over and over again it would come to an end. why should the government do a job that a company need to do when hiring people to see if they are citizens or legals. It's more welfare that corporation get that we need to cut out. It's not the government job to catch them when they should not be hired in the first place!!!! corporate responsibility corporate responsibility corporate responsibility corporate responsibility
Lets hear the candidates say that over and over again
I LIVE HERE in Arizona and I live ~20 miles from nearest LEGAL entry point into Mexico. I can see a mountain in Mexico from my living room.
UNLESS YOU LIVE HERE, you have NO CLUE what you are talking about on this subject. There is a damn good reason so many people in Arizona own guns - ESPECIALLY if you live in the desert ANYWHERE close to the border with Mexico. Every single one of our friends who own land next to, adjacent to, and/or near the border CARRY LOADED WEAPONS all the time. To do otherwise would quite literally be "STUPID" here, because you never know who or what is going to walk into your yard and/or house - or what their intentions are. I would never even consider for one second exploring the desert here on foot, quads, or 4 wheel drive unless I was with a group of people and armed, and by that I mean lock-and-loaded.
If you don't live here - then you have no place casting judgements on this topic.
Move here, get a house here in the desert, then we will talk and see if you are not a card carrying member of the NRA within 90 days, and see if you don't own an AR-15 or two.
Obama, HE DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE BORDERS HERE IN AZ, or New Mexico, or Texas, or California. He is from Illinois for God's sake.
Janet Napolatano - Listen/read to her words ""The violent crime in these areas has gone down significantly. These are among the safest areas in the United States." She never said it is "safe" here. The walked her words around it - to protect Obama in an election year. Period, end of discussion.
Just come here and ask the Border Patrol Agents, local police, Sheriff Dever or Joe Arpaio the opinions on that statement. Other than the people who live here, THEY are the ones on the Front Lines every day who know the ground truth.
It is the primary job, the number one job of the president to defend the borders. Fact.
Also a fact that people forget that drug smuggling is also kidnapping, extortion, human smuggling, child prostitution, murder, rape, robbery, home invasion and a host of other crimes that the president and his stooge Napolitano refuse to address. Obama is the President of the United States, he should fulfil his duty rather than cracking crass jokes and playing for latino votes.
There are rape trees where women are tied and raped repeatedly, their underwear tossed into the underbrush as 'trophies.' Ditto children. Yet our 'Commander in Chief' laughs and pretends that nothing is happening, pulls BS lies claiming all is well as people are raped, tortured, murdered and all this happens on THIS side of the Border, not in some vague Mexican border town.
So, Obama, by doing nothing, lying, cracking jokes and pandering for votes allows for the continuation of these crimes. He is an accessory to murder and rape and his pathetic little followers make lame excuses. The Border Patrol is as hamstrung as the military, can't shoot the SOB drug traffickers and they know it. The ranchers can't shoot them and, in fact, have been tried and found guilty of violating the 'rights' of tresspassing illegals. Obama is a fraud and a sham, his record is abysmal and Holder is his lying, sniveling little attack dog, going after states for attempting to protect their own citizens.
I have relatives in AZ that have had to move to safer areas just to get away from mexican drug smugglers and thugs entering their property many times, they've lived in AZ all their lives and have seen how bad some of the towns have become over the years because of illegals. Its really not as safe as the politicians seeking latino votes want you to believe. I feel sorry for them having to give up what they've worked so hard for all these years, they are elderly and haven't felt safe in AZ for a long time but AZ is the only home they've ever known, why should they be forced to give up what they've worked hard legally for? They've been robbed multiple times, have had cars stolen, and cases of identity theft. Yeah, that sounds real safe to me. Americans are thrown in jail for robbery, car theft, and a host of other crimes related to the very same things illegals seem to keep getting away with.
Obama is full of hot air, he and any politician trying to buy votes and supporting a certain people for votes want americans to think things are better, just like everything else he seems to love patting himself on the back for. He's opening up the future possibility of a war on american soil if the drug czars continue muling their people into the US, its all about money to them, not seeking a better life, just money and the possibility to take back land they think belongs to them, and they will kill you without question if they think you are a threat to them and so will their drug mules bringing in the drugs, we had thousands of murders here on the east coast committed by illegal gang members. Its not just TX and AZ that have a big illegal problem, we have many illegals here in NJ, Philadelphia, NYC, all along the east coast. Major cities are good hiding places for them, and I'm sure good for drug dealing. If people would get off the dope, maybe the supply and demand chain would end, but americans are stupid. They don't see it that way because with all that dope they just don't see at all.
Landmines? Really? Anyone who thinks that is a good idea is a piece of scum. I'm all for the ideas of adding troops to man the border but why do some of you people have to be so god damn extreme???
I knew someone who got kidnapped in Mexico about 5 years ago. We worked for the same company in the Dallas area, but he had some family in Mexico just below the border and would sometimes go visit them. He called from Mexico begging our boss (who was also a good friend of his and a business partner) begging him to provide the ransom. So our boss called the FBI, and the FBI was at our company's office for about a week, coaching him through the whole ransom process. Anyway, the point of my telling all of this is that at that time, those FBI officers said that their office was handling about 7 Mexico kidnappings a month, but they said the Austin FBI office was handling about 7 A WEEK. This was about 5 years ago, but I simply cannot believe that while the drug war in Mexico has gotten 10 times worse since than, that the spillover crime has gotten 10 times better since then. I just can't believe that.
Too bad the 'Latino vote' is more important to politicians than protecting our own citizens.
Most people have the right answers as to how to stop illegal immigration, it is NOT difficult but most of you don't realize that our government (past and current) don't want to close our borders. This country/big corporations are hooked on cheap labor and for that reason we will NEVER do much about stopping illegals coming to this country. It is ALL about the mighty dollar and companies protecting their profit margins, period.
Max 108
What makes you so sure that the rich Democrats in charge do want the cheap labor also. They want both the cheap labor and the votes.
@beana thome; I can think of nothing verbal to express my dislike for you. You can't be serious,all I can think of is that you own nothing,do nothing,and are nothing,other than a @$#$^&^*^&()&%^$!! Sorry,but it's true. On second thought,no I'm not. The world needs people like you in order to make idiots like me look extremely intelligent.
mygirl.. when I lived in the southwest(New Mexico), the politicians either supported the illegal, or was out powered. Illegals could go to the C church and get what they needed. The motor vehicle offices gave any one with money ID cards. They could also get drivers license. The license can be exchanged for another states license. Why blame the national politicians, when local governments and charitable organization are aiding the law breakers. There are many elements to what is happening on the southern borders. I once saw a movie, where by the church sold guns out of their cellar.
Toasty - it is an immigration problem, plain and simple. Are you so inbred in your views that you can't see that?
This situation is out of control.... until a few families along the border are slaughtered it will get no attention from Washington. Sad but true.
Then the media will spin the story....make it the victims fault(after all they were armed) and welcome the offenders in with US citzenship.
Forgotten is the families that were wiped out...
No problem along the border says Obama as he laughs at these "hillbillies"
After all- unless it is in Washington D.C. then it is not a problem (with the media swallowing-hook,line,sinker)
No NV, I just read books that don't require crayons. This gives me a magical ability to inform myself on national policy issues.
This is about border drug violence, not immigration. Keep on topic.
Gabby Giffords, before that horrendous day, gave an impassioned speech before congress. I watched and admired her for her loyalty and concern for the citizens in her district and state. In her speech she mentioned the ranchers killed in the ongoing border debacle. She pleaded for assistance in shutting down the borders, she pleaded for help with stemming the tide of drugs, cartels and violence making it's presence ever more invasive and pervasive.
It is painfully apparent that what she said fell on deaf ears.
I want to see a Berlin-style wall that has 20ft of reinforced concrete; that is 50 ft high. There should be mini-guns mounted every 20 ft on the walls with snipers every 100 yards. Three trenches surrounding the wall with claymores, landmines and concertina wire in each ditch. Create major base outposts every quarter mile on the wall backed by 10 major military installations the entire length of the border. Each base should be equipped with quick strike fighters and a squadron of Apache gunships, and five tank divisions assigned to five the 10 bases. The order of the day is shoot-to-kill. I call this new barrier the "AMERIA-WALL." The foreign criminals will know it as the "NIGHTMARE WALL."
As farfetched, as this may seem it may one day come to pass. But for now, the order to shoot all drug traffickers on the spot should be policy of the U.S.
Toasty McGrath, you said to NVArt,
That's like saying Canada has nothing to do with cold climates.
Many illegal aliens crossing the border to Mexico are carrying drugs. Many are armed, many are drug cartel members. People in the United States are under attack on their own property by drug cartels that have been responsible for over 50,000 murders in the past few tears, .
Border drug violence and illegal immigration from Mexico are "like two peas in a pod."
Earlier this page you said;
Perhaps you should take your own advice, your Hippocracy is showing.
Pull the troops home from Afghanistan and militarize the border. That's what you do with a war zone, and that's what Mexico is. No point in sugar-coating that turd.
Darthfrodo-
Hilarious! I love it. Laser beams on their heads-lol
beanathome..."In any case, why are we conflating issues with a drug-smuggling route with issues about illegal immigration?"
How can you separate the two? The drug lords often force illegal immigrants to carry their drugs across the border for them. And they both use the same corridors. How does the DEA tell the difference between an illegal carrying a pack with supplies and one carrying drugs?
Under the circumstances, it's not possible to separate illegal immigration from drug trafficking/violence.
If the Border Patrol wasn't so overwhelmed with all the illegal aliens, they could contribute more resources to drug trafficking on the border.
I am tired of people just blaming the problems on other, in this case the Mexicans. Let`s do what we can in our side of the problem. First let`s put some troops in the border, we must secure the border. But that wont stop the problem, not by a long shot. We have to deal with our very own and inept DEA and we have to work out a way to decrease our consumption of illlicit drugs. If not, the smugglers will come up via Canada or our shores or even worse, American cartels will emerge, much more sophisticated and dangerous that south american ones. Or option B: lets just legalize it. But keep blaming Mexicans wont solve the problem, its time to take some action.
I'll say one thing, Rick Perry did have a few good ideas: #1. put in the fence...... f&#% 'em if they don't like the idea of protecting the border. Then fill Rio Grande with alligators, and the dry land area with junk yard dogs - that would solve a lot of problems.
Janet Napolitano and David Aguilar are so full of BS it is pathetic. Napolitano is a political appointee hack who got her job due to slavish devotion to her party and it's choice for president above the welfare of the people of the state of Arizona! She was worthless as governor and even more so as head of the Department of Homeland Insecurity! Aguilar is a clueless bureaucrat with his head buried in the sand in DC and has no clue about what really goes on down on the border. I live approximately one mile from the border fence in the Southeast corner of Arizona. I hear illegals running the alleys behind my house almost every night. The only thing that keeps them out of my yard is three large dogs. I have also been the victim of a home invasion by armed illegals. I have since armed myself with a pistol and a AR style rifle, and have no compunction about using them the next time some scumbag illegal tries to enter my home uninvited. Napolitano's idiot statement about the border being safer in a total crock! I certainly do not feel any safer. She and Eric Holder have give the Border Patrol restrictive rules that only allow most to do their job feeling like one arm is tied hehind their backs. Thus it does not matter how many boots they have on the ground in this area. The border around Southeastern Arizona where I live has more holes in it than my wife's favorite pasta strainer! I also fully supported AZ SB-1070 and stand behind Governor Jan Brewer as well! I am also of Hispanic descent.
The issues go hand in hand Toasty.
firstly, daisy cutters is a valid term, also called Jumping Bettys in WW 2. My solution is, if you remember the old sign " this area patrolled by pitbull 3 nights /week you guess which 3" Well we put that sign all over the border fence EXCEPT we say AC-130 GUNSHIPS and Then we patrol 7 nights per week!! That will cure the stupid bastards.
Yeah its not real Mexican drug violence, its just 'spill over violence'
Its really not in the US it just 'spills over' sometimes and appears to be here.
Folks some comments and suggestions that if followed while not popular should do somthing about the dual problem of immigration and the drug cartels. It is my understanding that in this country the military is suppose to fight the wars, not police forces. Further we are currently being invaded by a foreign countries nationals due to their apparent inability to self police themselves. The obvious solution, though neither the cheapest or most expidisous would seem that which has been hinted at earlier in this section.
1) The imediate recall of all troops in Iraq and Afganistan with a 30 day LOA to all returning troops.
2) The Government of Mexico should be given 45 days to get their acts together and regain control of their population or be willing to face the most dire of consequences.
3) Civilian police forces should be redeployed where needed to try to get control of immigration and drug problems already in this country.
4) At the end of this 45 day period if the Mexican Goverment has not fixed their problems then we should deploy battle harded troops across the Mexican/US border with orders to take any and all action needed to bring about the control of these problems.
Wait, so some local sheriffs and mayors say the border is safe, while other say it's unsafe? Then the feds should add more patrol units and choppers to the areas where those sheriff's l say that it's unsafe.
Better yet, just end the @!$%#ing disaster that is the War on Drugs.
Seriously, most if not all of the violence would end within a year or less. Cartels out of business. People no longer shooting each other up for drug turfs. Police militarization would no longer be necessary (seriously, when they send a SWAT team to an 80 year old man's apartment because he has a legal prescription for MJ, I fail to see the necessity there).
I still don't get it. Why do these @!$%#ing morons continue to vote for drug prohibition? It's stupid, it's against individual rights, it's racist, it's costly, it's counter-productive. There's a whole lot of reasons it should be ended, but I haven't heard a single argument that could convince me drugs should be illegal.
Time to end it. End the incentive, end the violence. End Prohibition Now!
Janet thinks 20000 Border Agents is enough, however divide that by 3 eight hour shifts and 1969 miles of border and you get 3.38 agents per mile at any time and they'd be 1562 ft apart, thats alot of holes.
Josh No the local sheriffs and mayor say the border isn't safe. Janet Napolitano says the sheriffs and mayor say it is safe. The government has been lying about that for years contrary of what the locals tell you.
I just moved from El Paso, and I can say it is definitely not the rosy picture of safety that Washington tries to make it out to be. The cartels have a stronghold in El Paso and many other border areas. They entice American kids (teenagers and preteens) to go to Mexico and in some cases force them to bring things back across, which is not reported in the FBI statistics. Sheriff Wiles, the El Paso county sheriff, has stated that his unofficial policy is not to ask criminal suspects about their immigration status, so criminals that are illegally in El Paso have the chance to continue staying in the US. There is a general feeling of lawlessness with 10 of our public officials being indicted in the last three years. It felt like most of the officials on the border didn't want to address the issue of cartel violence or illegal immigration and do what they can to hide it.
hsoj, can you say dyslexic?
Josh... those agencies that say the border is safe, are possibly the ones letting the drugs into the country. So lets look the other way.
i just moved from el paso to memphis TN and el paso is safter i lived in sunland park nice city dont know what el paso you moved from
Spillover?? This is not spillover - it is a full on invasion!!! The cartels have established strongholds in 1000 cities here in the US. Stop with the spillover - the 20 million Mexicans are spread out across the country, are selling drugs to your children and have ready access to a broad range of weapons. Think the problem is bad in Arizona? Take a look at all the Mexican gang killings that take place in LA and Sacramento. Check the stats of the major cities in Texas. Spillover my a$$.
repeating....."Josh... those agencies that say the border is safe, are possibly the ones letting the drugs into the country. So lets look the other way."
Yep, I suppose that Mrs. Napolitano, DHS head who says the border is safe, is at the top of the heap for letting drugs into the country, so let's NOT LOOK THE OTHER WAY but take her to Federal Court for lying to the American public:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fecas7b3dDI
Spillover ? What about the cartels shooting ACROSS the border at our Border Patrol Agents ? Nah, something MSNDC forgot to report on.
No ifs and or buts this is what we need a wall like the Israeli's put up.
http
://www.google.com/imgres?q=israeli+wall&hl=en&sa=X&biw=929&bih=931&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=5LS2kWz0MD0P7M:&imgrefurl=
This is what we need no ifs ands or buts:
http ://www.google.com/imgres?q=israel
i+wall&hl=en&sa=X&biw=929&bih=931&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=5LS2kWz0MD0P7M:&imgrefurl=
or just do a search for israeli wall. A monstrous wall that will pay for itself in 2-3 years with less man power and less problems.
Time to get rid of Obummer who wants to destroy the U.S. and put in Romney! Stop this shi* KNOW!
We need a president who is going to get Mexican permission for hot pursuit to stop this. Once the Mexicans know they can't hide on the Mexican side they will stay miles away from the border and stop the fuc*ing Mexicans from driving the altered trucks with altered cargo containers from driving them in the U.S. That was 100% Obummer's signature on the agreement. Bush held it up and Obummer signed it into law.
Remeber Obummer is a fake, fraud and a fool. Who in his right mind is going to let Mexicans drive trucks that have been sitting on the Mexican side for weeks into the U.S. and all through the U.S.? Might as well give them a license to peddle immigrants and drugs.
It was shown on that science program how to fool dogs not to find drugs. I am sure the cartels have plenty of other ways to hide the drugs in the vehicles and cabs. Hell a double oil pan on the diesel engines can easily hide 20 kilos.
We need to get milita's deputized and using night scopes and take the bastards out! After a few hundred get killed, they might get the message.
Obviously the drug smugglers are armed...ask yourself this question, "When did you hear of a drug smuggler being shot?...never happens right...ummm correction...a few years back a border patrol agent shot a fleeing smuggler wounding him in the...part upon which you sit...and the border patrol agent was prosecuted and went to prison...so much for enforcing the law...by force...but since the smugglers are not really very intimidated by harsh language...well it's not surprising what this has come to.
The smugglers are armed so they can intimidate the U.S. citizens living along the border, they know the Border Patrol won't fire on them, so if they are approached they drop their load and run resulting in a win for the Obama Administration (they interdicted a smuggling operation), a draw for the drug smugglers (they live another day to smuggle drugs and intimidate peaceful citizens) and of course a loss for the peaceful citizens (nothing has changed for them, the smugglers are further emboldened).
A suggestion to please everyone:
1. Continually broadcast all along the border the "Miranda Rights", this gets that out of the way and should ...ummm might...satisfy our valiant Attorney General and his boss our esteemed Constitutional Scholar.
2. Establish new military bases along the border and put up signs (in multiple languages) which say; "This is a US Military Base...trespassers not immediately surrendering WILL be shot!
3. Those surrendering will be sent to Guantanamo...we can argue about what to do with them...LATER...those not surrendering...hmm....will be remembered by a medal appropriately awarded.
Seriously border incursions by armed thugs HAS TO STOP! If this administration can't get the job done...it's time for a new one!
Repost from collapsed thread #1.48
Go after the Americans who hire illegals heavy fines that actual puts a dent in their pokect books. Dry up the reason why most the illegals are here first place. leaving money that actually put a dent the severity of the problems.
Alabama is trying, but they came back.Said they would rather be in jail than go home..now what??
I will agree with you three Tao. Take away their reason to come here. Fine the companies that hire them, and ship them back to where they came from.
They want us to believe that there's no violence coming in from Mexico. Let us believe that the people coming in, while illegally are simply looking for a better way of life, so we should grand them citizenship.
Bear traps I would fill my entire acreage with them..you have a right to hunt on your own land and thats what I'd chalk it up to.
What we, the public, need to do is make each border governor take a formal stance on how they stand on illegals and immigration as a whole. Past and even present governors talk out of both sides of their mouth not wanting any stance put in cement. You're either for it or against it.....TELL US... and if you're against it stop giving them benefits like a college education and medical.
After we get the governors stance we need to go to the federal government and make them declare why they too are allowing this to happen. Yes, we do billions of dollars of trade with Mexico. If we stop illegal immigration are they afraid this will dry up? Did someone along the line sign or verbally agree to let this happen? TELL US.
As for President Obama laughing at a moat and alligators....shame on you! If we don't have enough man power we need to build those moats and stock them. Assuming of course that you believe illegal immigration is hurting our country. TELL US. This has been going on for 20 years at least and we want to know why all the presidents have ignored this issue.
And tell us before the election.....all of you. Let us know what you plan on doing AND do it. No excuses! Let us make an informed decision.
How can you some of you posters say to blow up a whole country for the actions of some? Really?! Mine as well blow up America while your at it. You and I both know a majority of them trying to cross the border is because they want a better life here. Or at least to make money to provide to their families.
For the drug smuggling, yes I 100% agree that needs to be stopped. Who do you think are they bringing the drugs to? Who is buying the drugs? We are...
javo, "For the drug smuggling, yes I 100% agree that needs to be stopped."
Why? They just want a better life too.
Legalize and tax it - problem solved... take a clue from countries which did, like Holland.
Two fences 1/4 mile apart with land mines in between and guard towers.Anyone caught inside gets shot at or blown up.Then we can send all the illegals back and make it a felony to hire an illegal.Over population is what's destroying the American dream.It drives up housing prices,undercuts wages,overtaxes our schools. Its time people start cutting their own lawn,and cleaning their own homes.And if farmers need their crops picked then there should be government programs for workers but only 6 months in the country then 6 months out plus farmers should have to pay minimum wage plus house the workers and a fee for the gov program to pay costs of running them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Turn it into a razor wire and mine field no man zone where even the Gila monsters are afraid to cross.
Max^, you do know that it is not “legal” in Holland, right?
“Cannabis remains a controlled substance in the Netherlands and both possession and production for personal use are still misdemeanors, punishable by fines."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands
Anybody that wants to stop drug lords, smugglers, murderers, and rapists are RACIST!!.. Ohh wait no it is called sovereignty. If a drug gang comes over to our side or if they throw even a pebble this way we go over there, drag them if we have to and hang them in the streets or on the border. IE.. "Pirates Beware"
I am tired of people just blaming the problems on others, in this case the Mexicans. Let`s do what we can in our side of the problem. First let`s put some troops in the border, we must secure the border. But that wont stop the problem, not by a long shot. We have to deal with our very own expensive and inept DEA, we need a much better agency and we must demand results! and we have to work out a way to decrease our consumption of illlicit drugs. If not, the smugglers will come up via Canada or our shores or even worse, American cartels will emerge, much more sophisticated and dangerous that south american ones. Or option B: lets just legalize it. But keep blaming Mexicans wont solve the problem, its time to take some action.
"We've identified 25 murders that are cartel-related, we've identified 124 kidnappings and extortions that are cartel-related. We know of 61 instances in which cartel members shot at police officers while they're on the river trying to interdict trucks."
What is there to "debate"? Build the wall already.
ES....you're right coke used to come into Florida and the drug wars were fought in Columbia and on the streets of Florida as far as drug cartels go they're in every city in the U.S. already and the gang wars are drug wars.The border needs to be closed and the illegals sent back then legalize drugs so there's no incentive to smuggle, make, or grow drugs and the street gangs will have to get jobs but only if they are American citizens.
Yeah. Let's just blame the law enforcement agents that put their lives on the line every day. We don't have enough people to do the prevention and enforcement needed. That is not their fault. There are too many others to blame for this issue anyway...it is not a simple problem. The ease of buying weapons in this country (thank you to the NRA and all the gun nuts), addicts who keep wanting more and provide an endless demand for what the cartels bring, too many miles of border to patrol and not enough people or resources to do the job, and our own lack of concern for something that doesn't directly affect us (at least for now.)
Why is everybody on here NOT getting to the root of the problem? Will militarizing the border help? Maybe, but it's costly. Will building a wall help? No, it didn't work in ancient China, Roman England and Post-war Berlin. What about snipers and a moat? the dumbest suggestions out there.
1. Illegals come here because they can work and receive government support! So, which means we must mandate E-verify and eliminate all entitlements (section 8 housing, food stamps, etc.) to non-citizens.
2. Cartels exist because there is a black market for their poisons. So, this means we legalize their main crop - marijuana. And if need be allow personal consumption amounts of other drugs, recognizing the FACT that drug addiction is a disease, not a crime.
Problem solved! With these 2 actions the only incursions on our side of the border will be from wild coyotes, not human versions. We won't have to borrow a trillion dollars from China to build a wall, tie up our military, or have had to kill people.
The ancient Chinese didn't have land mines and machine guns although i do agree with many things you wrote the border needs to be secure if i were a terrorist leader i would train people to dress,speak,and act Mexican so they could enter the U.S. and do what ever they want because its easy.
Lock down the border so tight it stops the flow of drugs.
Which will in-turn stop the illegals from coming over. PERIOD
this article should read.
RAGE OVER VIOLENCE FROM MEXICO SPILLING INTO THE USA
SILL UNRESOLVED BY INCOMPETENCE IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM
zuksam
with comments like these and many others on here, we deserve our disfunctional leadership. It's a match made in heaven.
imrightnotyou, I disagree with your point, I believe if you seal the border is only the first step, but it will spawn Amercian cartels, someone will grow it or create labs for artificial drugs, someone will supply the drugs, so until we curb our consumption and improve our failed DEA we will have the violence the black market creates.
Unleash the drones.
how refreshing to see Americans actually in support of the military-industrial complex.
And what state do you live in?
DJTX
I'm closer to the US-Mexico border than you think
If Obama wins the election, you might as well open the borders up. They don't want the illegals to leave: over 40,000 police, hundreds of judges and lawyers depend on these criminals for their jobs. Businesses make money off the illegals and stick the costs of their social services to the American taxpayers.
----------------This is the tax you never voted on---------------------------------------
jw101, Now you are getting close to the larger truth. Whether Mr. Obama or Mr. Republican - it makes no difference. Crime and the war against it is a huge, huge, and profitable industry. Like any industry - if it runs out of resources, then it is done for. In this case the two main resources are victims and criminals. Since victims are "free", then the industry assures a continuous supply of criminal resources by "recycling" criminals via a completely ineffective criminal justice system. If you want to de-criminalize a criminal then you must change the way they think. You change the way they think by selective changes to the brain. Neuroscience researchers have shown us the chemical means (pills or implants) to do this - however the "industry" considers this "cruel and unusual" therefore we continue to resort to 300 year old means, that have never worked - so that we can continue to fund this huge industry with taxpayer dollars and "free victims".
I guess he doesn't know the name of his state!
gtouch
Arizona, happy?
jw101... Prisons are private businesses in some of the southwest. Those police can easily be tempted to make arrest for a kick back. Some of our cities go broke because they have wayyyyyy too many police, swat, bomb squads etc. Too many police create more crime. (the blue collar type)
22,000 more Border Patrol just mean 22,000 more corruptable people. And the immediate threat that is being ignored is the amount of drugs is still at an all time high and destroying Americans while our government is talking about war in Iran. For me , I just waste my breath even being concerned because our elected officials are just puppets that talk a good game.
What_the_81
I agree with you 100%! I love listening those liberal thinkers that most likely live nowhere near the border, but think they have all the answers. I live approximately one mile from the border in SE Arizona. I spent 20 years of my life and two wars in the service of my country. I am damned if I will ever support seeing what I am entitled to and worked hard for all my life be handed out free to those who are here illegally and don't deserve anything!
What_the_81 your 2.31 comment says it all. What you suggest regarding decriminalization has been implemented and is working in other countries as we speak. As far as the illegal entry issues and the drug smugglers are concerned killing their cash cow by simply legalizing it would definitely put them out of business. Also eliminating all free governmental supports would certainly curtail illegal imigration to some extent but I don't believe it would cease completely. There are just too many employers who will gladly break the law in order to get cheap labor. Back in the 1930s many of today's welfare programs and entitlements simply didn't exist yet migrant farm laborers were still predominantly of foreign descent and often here illegally.
But I definitely agree with your points as stated. Well said.
Sorry but it will never happen here. The foreign cartels, and the domestic gangs and drug organizations (Mafia) will never let it happen. There is too much money to be made. These organizations and others like them, learned their lesson with prohibition in the 1930s. They work hard lobbing to keep it illegal and the price high
Bazerko8-1 your comment at #3.12 really serves to make my point about how insidious organized crime can become. It ultimately derives its greatest strengths by infiltrating the very fabric of the government and our society. That is how it has become so powerful in Mexico and many South American countries. Most politicians and others in positions of authority are owned by the crime lords and those who are not live in fear of losing their lives on a daily basis.
I just returned from a brief vacation in Las Vegas and while there I visited the newly created Museum of Crime and Enforcement. It was not only historically interesting but also somewhat socially relevant to the problems that we presently confront today in the drug and white slavery trade. In almost every case the parallels between yesterday and today were incredible. During prohibition the mob (AKA Mafia) influenced the governments of every major city in or around America. New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Hollywood, Miami, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and so on. Their influence even reached into Canada since that was their closest source of legal whisky.
The fact that you acknowledge what you do in your comment indicates that there is already a pervasive attitude in our society that our governmental leadership is already infected and influenced heavily by the criminal minds of our day. You mention the Mafia but I contend that the Mafia as we knew it no longer exists. They long ago went "legit" by moving into the financial markets, banking, insurance, and the corporate world. What we see as the criminal elementwith its violence is only the lower end of it. We are already in over our heads and the actual controlling factors may very well run our country from the board rooms of big business rather than in the halls of Congress.
I can neither document or prove this in any way but as an old observer of life and people I can say that I have come to believe this myself. America has become a nation ruled by criminals who have only their own agendas at heart and the preservation of their power structure. Their goal is to ultimately rule the entire world such that they have all of the wealth and power at their command and the plebicite (youn and I) simply exists to serve them and their heirs apparent. We have really been like this since the dawn of human kind and only swing from one extreme to the other. Right now we are on the swing toward those bent on the criminal domination of all nations on the planet.
Eventually it will swing the other way but not until we have a world wide catharsis and cleansing similar to the one that took place here in the U.S. in the 1930s. Somehow I think that it has started in Europe and simply hasn't gotten here yet. There have been some pretty powerful 'baddies' exposed lately there and the people of Europe are becoming much less tolerant of inappropriate shennigans on the part of their leadership. This is just the observations of an old man but it definitely is interesting to watch it unfold.
Don’t make war; make it a state.
We blew that chance in 1847. Not going to happen.
Wow. Talk about instant bankruptcy. Watch your tax rate jump to 70% to clean up the cess-pool and support the instant breeding frenzy for handouts.
Drug lords seem to like war; but not the IRS. Annex Mexico to the United States and let them pay their share of taxes. The government can use the revenue.
We already have enough waste and corruption in Washington. No need to give them more.
They dont collect the money from legal companies here, ie G.E. How would they ever collect from an illegal company? Oh wait they might offend the illegal populous losing votes! Never happen!
--------------facebook ------- Class Action Lawsuit against Mexico ---------------
Disillusioned....
Don't forget to take over their oil resources.
"How much violence and crime linked to Mexican drug traffickers has spilled over into the United States?"
ANY spillover violence and crime linked to Mexican drug traffickers is too much. Protect our borders. Protect our citizens. It is a fundamental responsibility of government to do so. It is a basic right of citizens to do so on their own if their government fails them.
It's all about supply and demand. Americans demand drugs. Mexico supplies them.
Skeptical -
Your response has nothing to do with what I wrote.
His response has everything to do with what you wrote.
You did type what I quoted, correct? You did use the words drug traffickers, correct?
Please explain how skeptic's reply wasn't related to what you wrote.
We are talking about the drug cartels, are we not? Remove the demand, and you remove that criminal activity.
Yeah, gotta get rid of the demand for child prostitutes. That's the ticket. Gotta get rid of the demand for kidnappings and rapes as well. Think things will get all hunky dory if demand for drugs disappears? Obama has cracked down on LEGAL marijuana growers in states where the populace voted to make pot legal. Seems Obama doesn't want states who actually follow what the citizens voted in, nope, gotta stomp on that.
Davelle,
I suspect we'd disagree on the "how" to protect our citizens, but I agree 100% with your contention that ANY spillover violence is too much.
Our prisons a full of spill over violence from south of the border along with our cities. Gangs, as far as I can tell the majority of them are made up of people here illegally or their offspring.
The one and only reason the Federal government was formed in the first place was to secure our borders.Now they want to read your emails,listen to your phone calls,know what you read,control what you smoke and eat,on and on it never ends....But they refuse to do their #1 job because cheap labor is what big business wants. And its both the Dem's and the GOP this has been going on for 40 years and neither party has done jack
Good to see another state taking steps to protect it's citizens:
Mississippi lawmakers pass controversial immigration bill
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/us/mississippi-immigration-law/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
25% of prison population is mentally ill, Illegal aliens can be as high as 40%. Deport the aliens, treat the ill, and you will solve nearly 1/2 the problem with the prisons. Or at least make room for the domestic criminals.
President Obama has done more for border security then Bush ever dreamed of.
And that would be what??? Ordering only criminal illegal aliens to be deported. They are all criminals. His order was constitutionally illegal since he is required to uphold all the laws not just the ones he likes.
That will never happen this non-administration will not have the truth exposed.
like launch lawsuits on states that try to curb this stupidity on their own?
That's why there have been more illegals deported under Obama than any president in the last 30 years? Yeah, I guess he's doing a pretty @!$%#ty job...
The only way to stop the violence is to end the Drug War. The only reason the drug cartels cross over into the US is because of the immense profits being made off of illicit drugs. The rest of the non-violent illegals should be aloud to stay, they are doing a hell of a lot more work than the majority of the legal residents in this country. If it wasn't damn near impossible to actually obtain citizenship and maybe if there were actual clear paths on becoming a citizen you wouldn't see so many illegals in this country.
...or methodically indoctrinating the US into the North American Union?
LOL Bob! If you added all the deportations of Bush and Obama together and multiplied it by 10, it wouldn't put a dent in the problem. Any deportations by either of these guys was all for show. Smoke and mirrors that apparently works on some people.
I love how Tea Party extremists are so hypocritical on this issue. They have a big boner for deporting illegals but when a Democrat President actually does it, and does it better and more often than their Cowboy Hero President did, they just deny it. Just close your eyes and pretend your version of reality is true!
all this complaining about the border that is not safe and drug smuggling ,,,.let me tell everyone here if you want secure borders hire honest law enforcement. money talks...peolple dont even have the slidest idea what goes on on the u.s. border side ,,,from rape, law enforcement personal running drugs for the cartels higher commands just looking the other way and their hands sticking out to receive that cash. and countless crimes the society does not know about. so please stop the complaining call your congressmen to do something about law enforcement first. as citizens we do pay for their services.
The problem I see is that there are open borders. Complaining to authorities is going to get nothing done. I agree we pay for the services but current administration will not follow through with federally mandated laws. Example: suing states for trying to restrict the illegal problem. The borders just need to be closed!
What everybody seems to forget is that there would be little or no drug-related violence if Americans would not buy illegal drugs. Every user of illicit drugs in the US has blood on his/her hands, because it is their money which funds the whole screwed-up deal. Quit treating drug users as victims and treat them as the criminals and the source of funding for major criminal activities which they are.
Like we don't grow and manufacture illegal drugs here. Open your eyes! We don't bring people across the border illegally do we, we may help.
The problem isn't drug users, slick. The problem is a government that is trying to dictate what an individual can put in their body. Who are you to tell me what I can and can't ingest, what I dress like, what music I can listen to, etc... Move to China if that's the way you want to live. The war on drugs has failed and our prisons are already over crowded with non-violent drug users.
That's a two way street. If our government would step up to the plate and enforce illegal immigration and border patrols (fencing?) maybe the drugs wouldn't get across the border.
that only cover drug used but not cover the illegals that cross over that charge thousands of dollars. then when they arrive sometime try to collect more and use violence. it all needs to stop. The border is open and violent and needs to be closed.
Real Americans grow their own.
wow, that's in the top 5 dumbest things i've ever read.
Dave T, America has been trying that for decades, almost 60 years now! It doesn't work.
Buy American. Look for the union label.
All I can say is ROLF......ROLF.......ROLF
Buy American. Look for the union label.
I'd happy buy an American product from a company not corrupted by some union.
My comment has nothing to do with illegal immigration, per se. Dumb? Let's see... I don't knowingly put psychoactive substances in my body. I don't drive drunk and am never intoxicated in public. I don't buy illegal or stolen merchandise. I pay my taxes. I contribute generously to charity. I teach my children to be honest, kind, and to be charitable to one another and to their neighbors. I try very hard to avoid personal choices which diminish the quality of life of those around me. Why, then, should I and the millions of other people like me have to tolerate the social destruction, depravation, fear, and mayhem that come with illegal drug use? To coin a phrase: "I'm fed up and I'm not going to take it any more." (Anybody get the movie reference?) I challenge every American to stand up, take responsibility for the consequences of our choices, and hold our fellows to the same standard. I don't care if it's "domestic" or "imported", or what flavor it is, there is no existing model which suggests that the legal and accepted consumption of pot, hashish, cocaine, crack, meth, etc. ad nauseum does anything but destroy a society from within. Just ask the Dutch how it's working out for them. I stand by my position. If you don't like it, too bad.
While I understand your point of view and appreciate that you have the right to it. I do disagree on a few things. Firstly lets keep the political leanings out of it, myself included. This is just 2 citizens talking shop. I agree that drugs should not be legalized but it needs clarification from the government for Marijuana. Yes it DOES help certain people with certain medical conditions as well as particular disabilities.
This is a proven fact, if for nothing else it does help nausea in cancer patients. It actually MAY have been wrongly classified as something much worse than it is. IF this is true then clarification is needed. not dogmatic political or conservative attacks. As for how this helps the border situation it doesn't if any. But perhaps looking at Marijuana as a medicinal component might in the future slow the movement of drugs from Mexico and Canada ( Among other locations. ) out of the US or perhaps slow it. Maybe not.
Since this comes up in any conversation for medically disabled people, or the border "wars" it is necessary to confront each issue and get it RESOLVED. All the political pandering, misinformation AND ignorance contribute to the problem almost as much as the illegals, cartels, certainly do. This country seriously needs a reality and information check. If for no other reason than this is our COLLECTIVE will, vote and safety put at risk by politicians, illegals and cartel members that muddy the issue no matter which side of the fence you are on politically speaking.
Genome - I really tried to be apolitical, though I guess every opinion on a public policy issue becomes political. My baseline, really, is simply this: The simple economic principles state that where there is no demand, there will be no supply. It's the same for buggy whips and drugs as for anything else. If demand for illegal drugs (any or all, take your pick) were to decline sharply, and there was no money to be made through the supply thereof, the cartels and others would collapse. That demand, in the ultimate degree, occurs with individuals who buy and/or use the product. In our society, we have mostly absolved drug users of any real responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Given the effects of hard drugs, such as meth or crack, on a user's ability to be a self-sufficient contributor to society, even the legalizing of these drugs would not fix the problem. Addicts will continue on a downward spiral until their only recourse is to steal, prostitute, or rob their way to their next fix. And I won't, not ever, agree that my taxes should be used by the government to provide that next fix in the interest of public tranquility.
I come back to my original position: We can argue about the limited, medicinal benefits of pot. That is very different from agreeing it be legal for purely recreational use. It remains a "gateway" drug to others which are far less defensible. Just because the Oxy in my medicine cabinet was prescribed legally, I have no right to abuse it. If I self-destruct by doing so, the impact on me, on my family, and on my community is the same. I don't understand why we should be any more accepting of the abuse of any other drug, legal or illegal. If people abuse drugs, and damage society by doing so, they should be held accountable for it. Ultimately, accountability is what is missing in our society, and what I would most like to see restored.
@Dave T-3196598 I smoke medical cannabis and I have no blood on my hands. I know where my medicine comes from besides I wouldnt want to smoke that Mexican crap anyways. Ask Steve Jobs about how drug use destroys a society because last time I check Apple products are demanded world wide and if Apple actually built their products here the whole country woulud be benefiting from the innovation of someone who smoked pot and dropped acid...
And if booze was illegal here, like in the past, the Cartells would be bring it across the border. Funny how you think it much easier for everyone to simply "cut-it-out". We tried the same thing with alcohol, by using public shame, incarceration, and jail-time; yet our ancestors didn't take long to realize just how foolish it is to think everyone will simply tow the line. People will use drugs and alcohol. Always have and always will. Making them criminal just creates more criminals from otherwise law abiding citizens. Sure alcohol ruins lives, and presents problems for society, but those problems are better addressed by informing the public, rather than alienating them.
And what was the result in legalizing alcohol? Black market alcohol disappeared over-night, and no, society didn't fall apart after all, and honest, hard-working citizens were free once again to live their lives as they see fit.
But, lets assume that somehow, someway the border become 100% secure, and pot, cocaine, and other illegal drugs somehow disappeared overnight. People would simply start abusing prescription drugs, sniffing cleaning products, or what ever they could find, until the only way to keep us Americans safe from the "druggies" would be 24hr surveillance, with a camera in every school, every business, and every home; because this will be the only way to stop drug abuse. Sure the drug problem would be gone, but at what cost?
FREEDOM for Americans in America close the borders and kick out the illegals and let the rest of the world deal with their own problems.DAVE T you say you avoid choices the effect the quality of life of others and so you should dictate what drugs they can use but there are people who think that fossil fuels diminish their quality of life(smog,pollution,noise)and others think its guns,alcohol,etc... they all have a point but freedom is not free it comes at a cost and that cost is putting up with others doing things you don't like.
I live in a remote part of Arizona. Law enforcement says it's worse than ever. The smugglers are now flying and running drugs through the huge Navajo reservation and violent crime is high. It is becoming more lawless and corruption is rampant. Don't listen to politicians and government agencies to get accurate information.
Obama, Bush, Clinton...who cares who has done what! It isn't enough! I say let them come down here and live in Texas; or one of the other border states; for a few days, and I bet they change their views on how protected our borders are. Let them be afraid for their family when the cartel and smugglers are running through their back yards. It is easy to sit up in Washington, far away from the border, and spew this crap. This is what is wrong with people today...too many wanting to sit on their lazy butts and judge from a distance, on what they presume is going on, instead of opening their eyes and really seeing the truth. There are gonna be a lot more cases with people getting fed up and taking the law into their own hands. Then the media will be ablaze with stories of racist southerners shooting "innocent" people crossing the border.
That's the real truth Chaz and Kris. Come live down here all you naysayers, and you'll see the real truth!
It's a complicated problem However, any violence is too much violence. This needs to be attacked from various fronts. First of all, the U.S. needs to do something to stop weapons that are being sold in the U.S. from ending up in the hands of Mexican cartel members. I know, I know, that they're also getting them from other countries but we don't need to contribute to this as well. Secondly, we need to stop worrying about the Middle East and take our troops and use them to man the border. They'll need to patrol the land, and also the sky, and also to check vehicles when they cross the border. Thirdly, we need to find some way to decrease the huge demand that many in this country, the U.S.A., have for drugs. I don't like drug use, however we have to realize that human nature being what it is. certain individuals will find anything they can to alter their reality. If they can't get drugs from the cartels then they'll use household items or alcohol. What we've been doing isn't working since you can't fight human nature. Maybe it's time to legalize pot and other drugs and provide it locally. You'll have less people dying-- what oftens kills people is not the drugs but the crap they mix it with to increase the volume. But one thing you'll do is then decrease the demand for the cartel's products. Without a market here you'll decrease their income and that will decrease the influence the cartels can buy. There are those that say that we shouldn't promote drug use. Well those that are going to use are going to do so whether it's legal or not. Those that don't want to use drugs will never use, legal or not.
JoeCal, the war on drugs has failed and will always fail, during Prohibition the Mafia practically ran some of our citys here. The only way to win this war is to stop fighting it, legalize. Stop putting money in the hands of violent drug lords, its destroying Mexico and us.
square dude, we're in agreement. I'm afraid that that's really the only viable option.
Like the ex Governor of Arizona doesn't already know!
it bad
sheriff LARRY DEVER lost his friends not due to mexican criminals but to AIDS, they where former gay partners with sheriff PAUL BABEU who just recently came out of the closet annoucing that he was gay. i personally dont have nothing against gay or lesbian people , but for sheriff dever to say he lost his friends due to the fact of mexican drug smugglers is totally wrong ,sheriff you want to speak- speak the truth and stop b.s ing the people.
Oh. And you know this how? I highly doubt you know exactly who his friends are, which means you made a rash generalization that border police officers MUST have been partners with a man further north in Phoenix. Sure you don't have anything against gays?
Apparently has something against English teachers too.
unknown 1445650. That is a bunch of B.S. and you know that it is! What has this story got to do with Who is gay? No one has died because of Sheriff Babeu. And Yes,Sheriff Dever has lost friends due to the cartels. One of which is Agent Brian Terry who was killed by one of the guns that Holder let Walk! Stick to the truth.
the border will be safe when the Americans living along the border do not live in fear. if the border is safe why be afraid to go out at night? If border is safe why are drugs getting thru?? if border is safe why are illegal getting over?? if border is safe why are our border patrol being shot at??? Do the bullet stop at the line??( I guess that is called a smart bullet or may one of a few that does not want to be illegal lol.) Protect our borders it is to the point of being almost to late.
Why don't you just move away from the border violence? Isn't that what you tell everyone who can't get a job in their home state? Move to Texas, move to Alabama, move to Arizona, where it is always sunny (exhibit A-Jan Brewer's and Rick Perry's sun-damaged faces) and the cost of living is so low? Move away and stop your whining. You live in a desolate part of the country that borders another country. So trade Mexico for Canada. I guarantee no Canadians will be trying to cross over into this f-u place!
you do know you can move dont you to nice saft US geto there are many to choose from drive by shooting and all. the inter part of the US is not wonder land
Ron - Is that supposed to be English or are you having a stroke?
^ This is hilarious and exactly what I thought when I read it.
The border is safer. They just didnt finish the statement, safer than afghanistan, iraq, lybia, egypt, israel etc. It is all about what they compare it to lol. Its about as safe as a two year old with a hand grenade. You just dont know what may happen.
Very Well Said!!
Well depends what side of the border your on because if your on the wrong side you will be in a place that is ranked more dangerous than afghanistan, iraq and pretty much the rest of the middle east
Hey Obama, you left out one key word in your "moat" speech... That word is ALGAE... Maybe after you dig that moat and fill it you can grow algae in it to power all of our vehicles? Hope all the alligator's don't eat it before you get to production. LMAO!!
If I found 1,000 pounds of marijuana on my farm I would have taken it for myself.... JACKPOT!
No sh*t, eh?
And if the drug lord's found out you took their pot, your headless and mutilated body would be hanging from a telephone pole the next day.
IF I found it , I would light a match to it. Problem is I would be arrested for starting a fire . That is illegal here is SW Texas. and the mule will file a law suit against me for destroying his property. Can you see what I am talking about? Sometimes you can't win." When I die , I may not go to Heaven, but Texas is as close as I've been" and so on and so forth. God I need a vacation , all this stuff is driving me nuts!!!
Politicians want do anything. They are afraid they might lose a potential vote! If there was a "shoot on sight" policy in place this problem would be quickly eliminated
"Maybe they'll need a moat, maybe they want alligators in the moat." Sounds good to me. Plus we'll be putting American alligators to work! :)
I'd prefer land mines, backed by artillery fire bases. Just look at the border between North and South Korea. Very few infiltrators get through there. We need to do the same between the US and Mexico.
Lies, lies, and more lies. That is all this administration has done from the get go. Vote this dumb ass out of office.
Well you know what they say - there are lies, d*mn lies, and statistics ;)
Napolitano must be on something!
the only good thing about Napolitano being in washington blowing Obamy and Holder is it got her stupid dyke a// out of Arizona before she had us completely broke. What a moron.
OK, first you say she is blowing the President, then you call her a dyke.
Are you always this confused?
So this is the same administration that allowed a couple of hundred semi-automatic weapons to "walk" across the border, and then lost track of them? Please. They must be stuck on "stupid", or just living in a river in Egypt.
The Afghans don't want us there; bring the boys home and put them to work on the border, drones and all. We can use the $$$ we've been pi$$ing away over there to fund the operation, and the support needed will create lots of civilian jobs. Or is that too simple for DC to understand?
I have a better idea. You take up arms and let those troops already deployed in the ME be with their families.
Have you not learned anything about keeping our troops in a perpetual state of war? They aren't machines that feel no pain or mental stress.
Those that call for existing troops that have already endured enough combat to come home, only to be put into another combat role, should be required to fight right alongside them.
Mike that is why we are still at war after all this time. The war is only faught by the soldiers and their families which makes up a very small percentage of the population. I bet if they stopped all the reality shows and blocked youtube and facebook until all troops are home we would see an end to this war in less than a week...
So your going to slam this administration for an operation that went wrong it was a mistake get over it. Semi automatic weapons walk over the boarder all the time because in some of those border states there are gun shows that have vendors who will sell weapons to ANYONE in some cases without a background check at all. I get it you don't like the current administration I didn't like the last one but get your head out of the sand, it don't matter who is in office if everyone stopped seeing red and blue for once and actually contacted their representatives we would be in a better place.
"in some of those border states there are gun shows that have vendors who will sell weapons to ANYONE in some cases without a background check at all"
You watch too much Current TV MSNBC (MSLSD),CNBC.
IF a vendor at a gun show sells a firearm-he or she has to run a NICS background check,with the exception of private sellers-a private citizen can sell a few guns from their collection to another private citizen without a background check,however-it is still a violation of federal,and state gun laws to sell to a "prohibited person"-meaning one who is not legally allowed to own firearms.
FBI,DOJ,and BATFE stats show that fewer than 1% of criminals got the guns they used at gun shows-
Mayor for life Bloomberg,and his group of fellow gun hating mayors and groups like Violence Policy Center,the Brady Campaign etc.are the ones pushing for gun show registration,or bans.
Those who actually work in law enforcement know that criminals and the Mexican cartels are NOT getting their guns at gun shows.
@NYMike
I've already paid my dues in uniform, have you? The difference is, I didn't have a choice. In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, the draft is gone, which means you have to sign up. That makes it your choice to serve, or not to serve. I know there are a lot of whiners and complainers that haven't broken a sweat defending this country, and a lot of them are throwing rocks on bulletin boards.
My comment was intended to provide a means of employment for troops no longer needed in all of the foreign countries that hate us, and no longer want us there. They have a choice: when their contracted term is up, they can get on the unemployment line like so many others have done during this economic "downturn". And by the way, not every dogface, no offense, would need to carry a weapon in border service, and they sure wouldn't have to worry about IEDs, and all the other guerilla tactics used by the Afghans and Taliban. Ask them whether they would prefer to guard our borders, or sweat out a hitch or two or three in a foreign country.
Ya'll just keep on with your pontificating and blowing smoke up each other's skirts just like the, "leaders" you put in Washington, DC. Me? I'm applying SOLUTIONS!
I purchased 40 acres on the west Texas border in the Marfa Sector and am en-route to that location to break ground and establish Forward Operating Base, (F.O.B.) Harmony in memory of murdered U.S. Border Patrol Agent and fellow U.S. Marine; Brian Terry.
NOTE: Ft McHenry sits on 43 acres and is the location where Francis Scott Key penned The Star Spangled Banner September 13-14, 1814, During the War of 1812.
I figured if under my personal circumstances that if, "I" can get up off my old, broke-down crippled ass and purchase a piece of the border and stand against any southern border insurgencies or invasion(s) by drug and human smugglers or OTM's from over 46 various countries, then so can others.
My long term vision is to see other fellow Veterans alike do the very same, to purchase more border property both north and south, and establish their F.O.B.'s and use them as staging areas to prepare and launch border operations in support of our U.S. Border Patrol and County Sheriffs along our nation's
borders.
The most ideal places I have found through extensive is the very properties that our American citizens and families have been terrorized and run-off of, many at gunpoint. Over the past (10) years alone, thousands of acres and hundreds of homes remain abandoned, open and available to negotiate.
Starting with our soil, on our borders, then working inward, removing those insurgents in office disguised as our, representatives", to bring peace and HARMONY back to our nation.
ALL active duty military personnel and Honorably discharged Veterans are more than welcome to pay a visit. Besides, we could ALL use the refamiliarization of our purpose in life and the Oaths we have taken to, "Protect and Defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies foreign and domestic"... That is unless your oath has an expiration date on it?
Check-in at the Facebook Page;
How about enforcing the law? Put CEO's, and HR Directors in jail that hire illegals. The illegal's jobs dry up, they pack their bags and go home to fix their own country. Keeping them here fixes nothing. It compounds our problems. How about fixing Mexico so they have no reason to want to be here?
That's a damn good point. Our federal government has created this problem by destroying Mexico and other Central and South American countries, they should work on fixing it.
But oh wait, the special interest groups, banks, and corporations that pay our elected officials wouldn't like that since they benefit from the drug trade, immigration, and the destruction of the most vloatile countries.
The maid at our beautiful resort in Puerto Vallarta made $35 a week. I wonder why they would risk their lives coming here...
Thanks NAFTA !
Nail on the head. AS long as American businesses are dangling the carrot of 500% wage increase, and getting in no trouble when their caught, the Mexicans will never stop trying to cross the border, no more than Cuban refugees have ever stopped. Enforcing our labor laws is much smarter than second guessing Latino Americans. Personally, I think illegal aliens are no problem what-so-ever, just as long as they are not taking our jobs. One thing I know that won't work is our present system of sending them back when we find them. For every Mexican we sent back, 5 are waiting to take their place, especially with so many businesses looking to specifically hire them. Its called exploitation, and as long as it is cost effective for those who hire them, the exploitation will never end. Its the capitalistic way. At least Ford was smart and instead of hiring them under the table, they just built their factory in Mexico, yet since they only earn about 1/4 what they would get here working in a field, moving factories south of the border is little to no help.
The only solution is completely eliminating the under-the-table job demand here. Make the act of hiring illegals criminal, with huge fines and even jail time for repeat offenders, and the problem will dry up overnight. Understand it is the Mexican people being exploited here, and the American people being ripped off. After the Civil-War, the south said their economy would collapse with the slaves, but they couldn't have been more wrong. Ending the slavery of the Mexican people will not be the end of our society any more than freeing the slaves was. Bottom line. If you don't know how to run business without the exploitation of others, get in a new business and make room for those who can.
this is and has been a real problem in evry state and most all communitys for years that simple, ....but wait i forgot........libs simply cannot accept FACTS that simple.
this is and has been a real problem in evry state and most all communitys for years that simple
If things are so simple, learn how to spell, because that is simple too.
I mean, there's even a spell checker built into the comment window, what's your excuse?
There is no reason to criticize. He/She maybe just missed a keystroke. That does not indicate spelling ignorance. Unlike your comment of course.
missed a keystroke
Communitys?
There's not even a Y in the word.
We need to something about this and fast. I live in San Diego I ran a add on craigs list to sell my car. Everyone who called only spoke spanish! That means they are here illegally and they are buying cars and driving illegally. When are we going to wake up. If you make a law that states you will be exicuted if caught crossing the border. Then you shoot them and they will quit coming!Have you read there laws on immigration? We should use there sam laws and we would be better off. The government is giving our country away! If you don't beleive me try calling emergency they ask you 1 for english or 2 for spanish. Why the hell do we need spanish for anything? This is America! I was born here, I come first! Not the Fnn Mexicans! Get the hell out of my country!!!
Your country is our country, Spanish and all.
Spinish or Spanish still cant understand you Wetback.