What a great arcticle from a normally terrible news website. It shows that the iranian people are the one who always suffer from our sanctions, not the government.

Also validates Ron Pauls stance that sanctions are a precursor to war, and that sanctions only embolden the current regime in power because the sanctions create hate against the west. The average iranian joe doesn't want or need war, they would like to work for an honest wage like everyone else.

I don't doubt that guys cousin was scared at the sight of the 5th fleet, im sure its quite a marvel to see. How does that look to the average iranian citizen?

Freedom, Prosperity, and diplomacy is the only way America can move forward.

Ron paul 2012 obviously!

Yes they have destroyed our country in order to get recruits wish we could send the lot of them..Ron Paul

It is sad when we have all the oil we need right here. Let's see. Who's to blame? Hmm

War mongers. They take everything from us even our children. put us in unbelievable debt. They can't conceive giving up any power, even if that means going to war again. They are controlling us with fear. Our government is in every country's business around the world.

Could you imagine if some other country sailed war ships of our coast and sent in spy planes, overthrown the governments in our neighboring country's, and is involved in propaganda to overthrow our government.

Do we really like to be the bullies of the world? and not to mention that these corrupt politicians have put us, our children and our children's children in unbelievable debt in doing it.

15 trillion divided by 350 million Americans = $42,857.14 (EACH) that's not including interest, and obama wants to barrow another 1.2 trillion. 16.5 trillion divided by 350 million Americans = $47,142.86.

Go to any school classroom and you will see about 25 kids per classroom. 25 x $47,142.86= $1,178,571.5 each class owes more than 1.1 million (THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE INTEREST OR THE ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE DEFLATION OF THE DOLLAR).

These corrupt S.O.B's have enslaved us in debt, And they want more.

"It is sad when we have all the oil we need right here. Let's see. Who's to blame? Hmm"

You could always ask the American energy companies why they sell their oil overseas, which is what they will also do with any newly discovered oil. Of course, the answer is simple. They get more money for it overseas.

Floridian -

And I want to know how many Americans AND others YOU are willing to sacrifice when Iran becomes Nuclear armed; This is NOT a government run by politicians, by Theologians - those who do not fear death, but, rather, embrace it - in other words, these ppl who will have the bomb do not have the same deterrent factor that the cold war had.

And...JOSH ? SPARE me, will you ? Currently, in the East, Africa, Asia and Central America, Muslims are killing other Muslims AND non-Muslims..and, guess what ? They have NOTHING whatsoever to do with Israel. But, I guess you NEED to put the blame on someone.

Blamo - The idiot child Bush would be the answer to your question. He Cheney and all their Oil Field Trash raking in the Billions on the backs of our veterans.

brendan - I agree with you that diplomacy beats military aggression every time - but sanctions and embargos are valid tools in the diplomacy kit. You start off with the least and work your way up to the toughest.And we've done that in dealing with this nuclear issue with Iran.So now we are at the embargo stage.And I agree,when you get to the embargo stage,you better step reeaal careful -it's a potential minefield.

JEFF-573598:

I beg to differ with you ole son, but they "DO NOT EMBRACE DEATH"... They instill in their misguided people that THEY should be the ones to die.

When was the last time you heard of a High Profile 'Leader' or "Clerge" being killed on the 'Battle Field'... As far as I know none have.

If they embrace death so much why is it that they are the first ones to HIDE when trouble comes their way?

No they 'Brain Wash' their people to believe that it is THEIR duty for their 'God' and country to kill and/or die. But you will NEVER see one of them on the front line.

about that, when is the last time you looked an islamic iranian jahdist in the eye to see the hatered and the willingness to kill you in them. i saw it everytime we captured insurgents in iraq. they were the stooges that their islamic lead government sent to dirupt the coalition government that could have brought iraq out of the the third century. why did they send them, fear of loss of control. fear keeps them in power in iran. if the zelots were removed from iran, then the true muslims in that country could coexist with them selves and their neighbors. but you would have had to leave the saftey of our shores to experiance that, which most people who talk like you have not.

Seriously? you actually said that? Now I know what is wrong with Florida, too much water, too much water on the brain.

Josh11024072,

Go to Hell. Israel CAN be trusted. No Arab or Persian can. All you have to do is look at the Arab world's track record. Thieves, liars, and cheats. Only an ignorant ass, unable to understand history would trust an Arab over a Jew.

- Edge

The USA is not going to win a war with Iran. Iran will sink Navy ships. This will give them there victory. Unless we send in 500,000 troops we will not institute regime change. The only thing we will accomplish is pissing off more muslims, and further destroy our economy.

Where did all the ultra liberals go. I remember when they were complaining about bush going to war.

Edge = Guns and god?

Edge of Idaho. no one can be trusted. Not allies nor enemies. Everyone is looking out for their best interests. Israel has spied on the U.S. and don't forget how the Pakistanis have played both sides. Many Islamic fanatics do want Westerners dead but no different than a lof of warmongering Westerners and Israeli's (some on this very site) who want to kill Moslems.

Floridian1 - It is a shame and YES, the normal working guy always PAYS the price.

Docholliday makes a joke of it about his wife....I'm sure SHE probably feels the same, BUB!

But seriously, what are we to do. Allow this EVIL country to obtain NUKES??? Oh Yes, then closing the Straight would be as easy, but opening it back up???

Daniel - Your blaming the WRONG president for this DEBT!!! The $1.2 TRILLION) Obama needs that increase, to pay for Budgets already approved - BY CONGRESS....You can't buy things on your credit card, then when the Bill comes in, just refuse to PAY FOR IT???

The UN has given Iran many many YEARS to comply. AGAIN, IT'S NOT OBAMA! They've done NOTHING but stall with these talks...all the while, building secret bunkers to continue! What is the world to do, allow these tyrants, to obtain NUKES. Just think of the threat they could SPEW, then?

The debt we're in is OUR fault, or have you all forgotten, "We the People", elected these people. past and present that have put us where we stand today. YET, the only people the Teapublicans want to TAX, to pay it off is those that have already paid through the NOSE, while companies like Exxon, make BILLIONS and pay NO TAX.

I do not agree 100% with Obama, he's not perfect. Seems there are soooo many posters on here that KNOW the ANSWER....IF YOU THINK IT'S THAT EASY, GO OUT AND RUN FOR OFFICE AND CHANCE IT. Spreading HALF TRUTHS and FEAR MONGERING, does nothing. I guess the Teapublicans can't seem to realise that!

This Congress has the LOWEST rating EVER....I'm certain it's not just a coincidence, it started after the Tea-party members, were voted in....

Fighting over oil! Just wait a few years till we're fighting over potable water. You whiney @!$%#s won't fight for oil but I'll bet when the time comes you'll sell your soul for some clean water.

People (not governments) people all over the world have much in common. We all do our best to live and let live.

It is sad when we have all the oil we need right here. Let's see. Who's to blame? Hmm

maybe the oil companies that closed over ten thousand wells when oil was running around $10 a barrel?

You know, many of you here are against the sanctions and against military action. So, I'm curious as hell:

What do you do?

You have a country threatening the whole stability of the middle east - they have built missiles that will reach any country in the middle east and quite possibly reach parts of the EU. They are also threatening another cold war with countries in the region - the differences is that the MAD (mutually assured destruction) philosophy won't work with people who literally think it will bring about heaven on earth. If they get nukes, they will use them!

They have stated they will blow Israel off the map. They have interfered with Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, Oman, Pakistan and Afghanistan's internal affairs. They have supplied terror groups with weapons, training and funding.

Now, you have this.

So, on one hand, you have a threat to our economy from a country that would attack many of our allies that help supply our oil and thus jeopardize your way of life with sky rocketing oil prices.

On the other hand and you have a threat to our economy from them closing the Strait of Hormuz.

You might say diplomacy, but we have been trying to deal with Iran since the Carter Administration and it has gotten us no where while Iran has continually built up and researched military weapons.

And please don't say switch to green tech. The last country to try to become independent in the fuel needs was Brazil on a 10 year "crash" program. They ran 110% inflation and double digit unemployment through the whole time and long after it. Switching will take time and we don't have time where Iran is concerned.

I just watched the republican debate, and every candidate with the exception of Ron Paul called for the US to go after Iran. It looks like the leaders, both republicans and democrats have us lined up for war in Iran. Why is it that it is always the US that sends its soldiers to die in wars that the countries that should be lining up to fight these wars run for cover? Truly, we have no money to fight any more wars unless our homeland is attacked. Let China worry about an Iranian atomic bomb. China is their neighbor not the USA.

USAF - I concur, options are very limited.

John,

China is their neighbor not the USA.

China is a big trading partner with them. They could care less if Iran had the bomb, threaten the strait or took over all of those countries and withheld oil from us all.

You have to remember:

1) China is developing. They don't need the oil...yet.

2) China is not considered the "west" in Iran's eyes. All of their problems with us happened long before you or I were even born - About 2,000 years before we were born.

3) Notice in the article that the one man said the price of shoes "MADE IN CHINA" had almost doubled.

4) China was a major arms supplier to Saddam and to Iran. They had no problem with breaking sanctions against Iraq, and won't have any problem with breaking them with Iran. They were even a major arms supplier in Bosnia! Why do you think we "accidental" bombed their embassy in Bosnia during Clinton's Administration, if not to send a strong message to them?

5) China figures that if they are attacked, they could lose a 3rd of their population and still have about 500 million more people then Iran.

6) You have to remember that any problem the "west" has is usually good for China.

That still doesn't help our oil situation or the countries in the Middle East that are threatened by Iran!

So, again...What do you do?

Floridian-1 - Not much different than over here..........

Not really. Since when will a complete stranger invite you home to meet the wife and kids for a meal without having some sort of motive. At Islamic Nations this is practically Law (may as well be as it is actually in writing). This is how sometimes (too many times too many), I go walking unarmed into a village here (Afghanistan) and yell out that I/we want to be their guest(s) (of course I am not that stup!d, and do have overwatch teams out of sight) after being accepted as their guest there are Rules for both the Guest(s) and the Host(s). This usually turns into a "Take me to your Leader", and very long talks and tea (with a small meal, except for during Ramadan) with the village "Leader" (usually the oldest in the village). If you want to be pushy, then you can start the conversations towards "what we can do for the village" and "what the village can do for us"; instead of playing Politics, what we normally do is show up a few days later, talk to the village elders again, asking if we can supply them with materials to build a school and medical clinic, help them dig water wells, protect them, etc., if they say no then we leave (return about a month later, after they hear by word of mouth from the other villages what we are doing, supplying the materials to build schools, medical clinics (with solar panels and batteries for lighting), teaching at the schools and providing weekly medical treatments at the medical clinics, between our other missions of US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare.

glw-321945 - it started after the Tea-party members, were voted in....

The Scrotums (Tea Baggers) were voted in, 2010. The current $60 Trillion to $100 Trillion "Global Economic Crisis" started after the US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression and the 1929-1939 Great Depression were eliminated in 1999 and 2000 (therefore NOT the Scrotums nor Bush).

As far as Iran, this crap all started with President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy (Iran could do anything without US Interventions (and they did). This would be like the adults in your special school telling the school bully that they can do anything without interventions, and then you come crying when you get your arse whopped by the school bully every day.

These are just some of the things that Fundamentalist Islamic Iran has done since President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy:

http://david393071.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/03/9928679-iran-2009-to-2012-straight-of-hormuz

And I really don't give a flying f**k what your response is, as in less than 6 months I get to go on Retirement again and this time "Too Old" to ever be Recalled to Active Duty again (and again and again). So this will all be on you Generation X and Generation Y, to fix President Obama's screw ups, go sign up now.

Joe/Cal:

Were you the Spy?

Do you have inside Top Secret Information?

USAF Vet-923294 - And please don't say switch to green tech. The last country to try to become independent in the fuel needs was Brazil on a 10 year "crash" program. They ran 110% inflation and double digit unemployment through the whole time and long after it. Switching will take time and we don't have time where Iran is concerned.

Brazil took the hit then, and now have their successful Brazil Alternative Energy Solution, Fuel, Electricity, Purfied Water (from the steam turbines), over 6 Million Alternative Energy vehicles (made by GM, Ford, Toyota, VW, Peugot, etc. (so that baloney that these manufacturers do not know how, is just that, since they have been manufacturing these for decades specifically for Brazil). Brazil now the 5th Greatest Nation of the "Americas". In the case of the US, this would be just not enough, as discussed in the Scientific Forums, the US would also need to have Thorium Nuclear Reactors (use the previous nuclear waste as fuel to get rid of the previous nuclear waste).

To all of you that keep saying US Oil Resources, how about reading up on the "Black Gold Rushes" that depleted most of the US Oil, and the current Oil Corporations trying to get every dime out of the depleted Oil Wells by pushing Natural Gas, without telling you that Natural Gas is Methane that is more damaging to the Ozone Layer than CO2 (Carbon Emissions) and how about those whole neighborhoods at California that blew up (are you going to spend that type of money to redo all of the NG lines Nationwide).

As far as which came first, the original engines used vegetable oil not gas, what you would say is "Bio Diesel". Here at Afghanistan the Afghans that you claim live in caves and sh!t use their used cooking oil, filtered, and use this in their electric generators and some of their diesel vehicles (gasoline is way too expensive), they do add some form of alcohol to thin this out. As far as living in caves or mud huts (adobe brick building with over foot thick walls), they have a higher "R" Factor than most US homes, and they started living in the former mining tunnels to get away from the USSR Carpet Bombing as natural bomb shelters, after their villages were levelled and many of them massacred. A Diesel Engine is easy to convert to Biodiesel with the addition of more fuel filters and a different fuel preheater "spark plug".

USAF Vet-923294 - China is developing. They don't need the oil...yet.

They need the Oil and the High Tech Minerals and are getting them from all over the "Middle East", Islamic Asia, Islamic Africa, thru Fundamentalist Islamic Iran (as Chinese "Proxy Fighters"). This is how China ended up with the Mineral Wealth here (Afghanistan) and are currently mining, in 2011, the Chinese declared a embargo of the shipments of High Tech Minerals from China; what this means is that without any High Tech Minerals the US must have all High Tech Made In China. What pisses me off is that we (US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare) spelunkered into the thousands of miles of former mines, mining tunnels, mineshafts, etc. and found all the "High Tech Minerals" with the attached Intelligence Agency's Scientific Teams verifying what we found, and now the Chinese have the Mining Rights thru the Iranian Government's negotiations with the Afghans (another Result of President Obama's 2009 Improved Relations with Iran Policy, just like the Chinese and Russian Federation got the Iraqis Northern and Southern Oil Field Contracts, 2010, from Iran's Allies the Kurdistanis (Northern Iraqis Oil Fields) and the Shiites at Iraq (Southern Iraqis Oil Fields).).

JoeCal,

How about this you go read the Declared Islamic War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers of the 109 Suras of the 114 Suras of the Holy Koran (Quran) and the current Islamic Laws that are based on these Suras.

And DO NOT tell me that the 1.8% of Islamic Believers living at the US determine what Islam is or is not for the 1.5 Billion Islamic Believers Worldwide. As most Islamic Nations are currently Fundamentalist Islamic (interpretation of the Holy Koran (Quran) is not allowed). Or something really uninformed by saying that they can pick and choose what to believe by being Muslim (Subjugated to Islam), as Islam being All, All Politics, All Religion, All Ways of Life (and Death), All Beliefs, All Culture, etc.. And any Islamic Believers that celebrate Ramadan are celebrating what, the massacres of the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, especially during the Islamic Believers attacks against the Christians, Jews, Unbeliever defenders of Mecca (Mekkah), as well as the other masscres and battles against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers; because the Islamic Believers were fighting from morning to evening, is why they during the Ramadan Fasts, are allowed to eat prior to morning and after evening. During Ramadan is one of the few times that we do not even attempt to go into any Afghan Villages (unless invited, and I still use lots of precautions (Airstrikes on call, etc.).).

Kevin Cowart,

Did you get an education at a Egyptian College like I did, with the Mandatory School Ciricuulum of Hitler's Mein Kampf as a success story, and the blame the Jews for everything, "Protocols of the Wise Elders of Zion".

Get over yourself, the Arab League of Nations lost all that land in Combat by attacking Israel. And now they are sore losers, for losing the Gaza Pennesula, Parts of Jordan, Parts of Lebanon, Golan Heights, Palestine, etc.. The US should never have pressured Israel into giving all that back in exchange for what, Peace, bullsh!t, as continually broken by the Arab League of Nations. The Arab League of Nations originally created by Amin Al Husseini to drive the Jews into the sea. Just like the Islamic World's Alliance to Hitler since 1933.

Like most NBC staff Ali Arouzi does not publish an email. He is an Iranian with Iranian sympathies. "As far as many merchants and politicians are concerned, this is the most significant waterway in the world, and it's here in the Persian Gulf that America and Iran's resolve will be tested if they can't come to some sort of a compromise."

The cards on Iran's table. Arouzi doesn't understand, is to ignorant to understand or doesn't want to understand?

It appears that everyone here understands. Stop the building of nuclear material and permanently let in the inspectors. BAM it is over.

The U.S. and the rest of the world do not want a compromise.

What kind of shi**y slanted reporting is this? A liberal bleeding heart report. Iranian people are being squeezed so they take control of their country, remove this religious crazies and get rid of the nuclear material. I said his thousand words in 22 words.

Terrible_Ted when did you go off your meds?

I love how some of you are so convinced Iran going to nuke us, ask yourself why is the American government so sure of this. And here the big question , our government has used the weapons of mass destruction excuse for all their wars since 9/11. But who is the only country in history to use WMD, if you said the USA you are a winner, even back than the Japanese were trying to negiotate peace , while our government was not budging just so they could use these weapons of mass destruction , so before you all accuse others of this crime look in the mirror of your own country's sins against man.

Garpo, the Japanese never negotiated peace with us. Seems like that would be rather silly after the events of Pearl harbor. Yes, we did indeed use a weapon of mass destruction. It was a tactical decision after seeing combat reports on land and see in the Pacific Campaign that lead to the belief that the cost of war in that theatre would rise far too high. Thus the reason to drop the nuclear bomb. It was a very unfortunate event, cant say that I can back that decision up entirely, but was deemed necessary. You should also look into the treatment of the POWs at the hands of the Japanese army, very brutal, concentration camp type of brutality.

However, these are different generations of people we are talking about. The sins of our fathers, on both sides.

Now where have I heard that rhetoric before, oh I remember, Its all the fault of the Jews, you must sacrifice yourselves for the FatherLand and Herr Hitler, you must die to the last man, do not give up one inch of territory we have conquered as he languished in his bunker. Same song coming out of Iran, but the difference is we don't have to put one boot on the ground in Iran, we have the weapons of mass destruction and can fling them from afar. We have the means to overthrow the theocratic misfits, nitwits and dimwits without firing one shot. Drop a drone full of leaflets over Tehran announcing a coming nuclear bombing in seventy two hours, leave the city if you don't want to be killed. Imagine the fifteen millions of Iranians trying to get out of the city in three days. Nothing the government could do or say would stop them. The government would fall in two days as even the Ayatollas henchmen would be swept from power and crys of negotiate rose from every quarter. They, that is the people know that we can do this and that Iran does not have the power to prevent it except by capitulation. Any new government would agree to stop making nuclear fuel and close and abandon all war making facilities. The Iranians of today at least the older ones know that they had it better under the Shah than they do under the Ayatolla regime. They overthrew the Shah and in such a crisis will overthrow the present theocracy. We have to get away from this thinking that all Moslems desire martyrdom and are ready to follow any Imam into death. All it takes is a drone full of leaflets.

It is sad when we have all the oil we need right here. Let's see. Who's to blame? Hmm

Blamo, even allowing the truth of your assessment, we do not have sufficient oil, even in the oil shale deposits in the Dakotas, to make up the difference if Iran were to choke off the flow of oil, as in Saudi, Kuwaiti, Iraqi and Irani oil, presently flowing through the Straights of Hormuz. The loss of that oil for a period of weeks or months would be sufficient to tip the World Economy into another deep recession, one for which nobody can predict the bottom.

BTW: Whatever the longterm potential of domestic oil reserves, at present our nation remains a net importer of oil, chiefly from Canada. Canada is hardly likely to cut off our supplies in the near term. But if world prices go up, they will charge the going rate.

These straights, and the Persian Gulf to which they lead, constitute international water. It is both our right and in our interests to protect these waters. It doesn't mean we are going to war, although that it is not impossible. It means that we intend to show Iran that we take access to these international waters seriously. The absence of the Iranian Navy's speed boats, which normally harass our ships in the Persian Gulf tells me the Iranians have received the message. In other words, like the Soviets of 50 years ago, they blinked.

I'm not an ardent advocate of gunboat diplomacy. But I do applaud our nation's decision to send significant elements of the U.S. Navy back into the Persian Gulf. It was the right move and is more likely to prevent fighting, than to instigate it.

@garpo813. I see by your coments that you failed your high school history class so let me clear up some critical points for you. Japan was not, I say again was not, negotiating with us at the end of WW2. At most it was sending up some very conditional feelers through the Soviet Union. Their "conditions" included things like no occupation and trying war criminals them selves. This was non starter with the Alies from get go. World War 2 could not have been settled, in Europe or in Asia, it had to be won. And if you study, I mean really study, all the alternatives available to Allied planers in the summer of 1945 the use of the Bombs was the one that had the potential to end the war in the shortest and least bloody maner posible. And I am really tired of people using this argument as you have, to bash the US, without understanding the context in which the desission was made.

David,

You still haven't answered the question. You point to green tech and how it has helped Brazil, but have ignored what they went through to get there. Not to mention that it took 10 years! This problem is NOW, not 10 years from now.

I have no problem with reaching a point of green technology RESPONSIBLY, without putting the cost of housing and food out of reach of millions of people. Yet, it still doesn't solve the problem at hand.

Here at Afghanistan the Afghans that you claim live in caves and sh!t..

I never made that claim or said anything of the sort and it makes you lose credibility claiming I do!

the Chinese declared a embargo of the shipments of High Tech Minerals from China

Come on David. I know duty hours can get long, but China embargoing China?

You claim China needs the oil from Iran, but the fact is that China only purchased (imported) roughly 27 million barrels of oil for ALL of last year! And less then 8% of it came from Iran. When you consider China consumes 8.8 million barrels a day, they only have to import a little more then 3 days worth (so far....remember, I did say, "...yet")! Still think they need Iranian oil?

BTW, the USA uses 18.8 million barrels a day and imports about half of it.

Sources:

http://daniel-workman.suite101.com/chinas-top-suppliers-of-imported-crude-oil-by-country-in-2010-a355760

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/02/28/surprising-facts-about-us-and-oil/

Still, it does not answer the question of what to do right now about Iran.

Like everything this is one of those complex and convoluted situations. God,I wouldn't want to be the one that has to make the decisions. No matter what you do, there is the potential to adversely affect our future and the world's future. As you say USAF,we have been trying to rein in Iran's nuclear aspirations through diplomatic channels for years. We've seen how well that's worked;Iran is getting pretty close to achievement. We're at one of those historical crossroads. If we don't do anything at all,they will have nuclear weapons soon. And then it will be too late to stop them. And everyone will say,we should have taken a stronger stance back before they completed their program. But at the same time, embargos can have the very real potential for countries to push back and take a hard line they can't back down from. And I don't like the potential outcome on that path either.If this leads to armed conflict,everyone will state we should never have pushed Iran with sanctions. I just wish some of these other Arab countries would step up to the plate and help deal with Iran.(and maybe they are behind the scenes.They just didn't inform me.)

Have you personally translated the Iranian leaders speech? He never said he had any intentions of destroying israel.

kevin coward, the translation that stated that Iran would destroy Israel was supplied by the Iranian News Agency. so give up on the "Iran is so innocent" bull@!$%#

kevin coward, the translation that stated that Iran would destroy Israel was supplied by the Iranian News Agency. so give up on the "Iran is so innocent" bull@!$%#

Both you, danwill, and Kevin Cowart need to provide your source or sources to back your claims as to what Iran, or Iran's president said regarding Iran's intent towards Israel.

I've seen various purported translations, most of which did not support your contention, danwill.

But I'm willing to learn. Post your source, please.

dman, sorry for not being clear. it is questionable whether Ahmanidijad actually threatened to destroy Israel in that speech. it was the official translation from the English branch of IRNA that initially supplied the more threatening version that included the phrase "wipe Israel off the map" .

the possible mistranslation may actually more reflective of the current divisive power struggle that is going on within Iran between the backers of the president (who is relatively "liberal" by Iranian standards though not by ours) and the backers of the far more conservative revolutionary guard.

whatever was actually intended in the actual speech, it was Iran that supplied the threat

Danwill - Thanks, I appreciate the clarification.

But, can you post a link to this English translation of Ahmanidijad's speech?

The best way to evaluate the quality and seriousness of this purported threat would be to read it first hand. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of somebody with possibly an axe to grind (or an atom to split).

Later.

http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247">http://web.archive.org/web/20070927213903/http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247

unfortunately, this one (iranian presidential site) stops at 2007 (could be just for age, or maybe they don't want verification?)

http://www.president.ir/en/1/0/2007/10

danwill - Thank-you. I looked at the first link, http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247,">http://web.archive.org/web/20070927213903/http://www.iribnews.ir/Full_en.asp?news_id=200247, and I have to admit Mr. Ahmadinejad's words are pretty clear and emphatic, Israel, or the "Zionist regime" must be wiped off the map.

While I have my doubts and reservations about the manner in which Israel was created 60+ years ago, I could never support a peace in the Middle East which does not recognize Israel's right to exist.

The open questions which remain in my mind are as follows:

1. To what extent do Ahmadinejad's words represent the feelings of the Iranian people?
2. Is Iran truly in pursuit of nuclear weapons?
3. Is Iran, or even its people, so possessed of religious fervor that they would actually use such weapons, with the clear and almost unavoidable consequence of suffering a massive nuclear retaliation?

On the first question, we cannot be certain here in the west. There are both reactionary, religious and fanatical forces working in that country and some very forward-looking, secular and western elements. The Iranian people I've met here in the U.S., have never struck me as given to fanaticism.

On the second question, I believe the answer is yes, the Iranians are hard at work attempting to obtain nuclear weapons. Their obstinacy against nuclear inspectors is hard to explain otherwise.

As to the last question, I am certain the answer is no. Neither Ahmadinejad, nor the nation he leads are utterly insane, and insanity (religion-inspired or otherwise) is the only mental state which would allow a nation like Iran to start a nuclear war which could only end in their utter annihilation.

Based upon current situation, I would say that Barack Obama's current policy on Iran is correct. The use of increasingly stringent sanctions, and the refusal to be intimidated by their threats, are the only practical tools available. I was glad to see our naval forces returning to the Persian Gulf, and to see the absence of Iran's pitiable navy.

Later...

dman, a very nice summary, and I find myself in overall agreement with your assessment

Ed, you forget after we kick their ass we will allow them to sell all types of products in our country at no extra cost to them while our manufacturers are taxed by them to sell in their country. That is the model we have with Japan and the model the rest of the world sees. So why not provoke the U.S. it will be profitable in the long run for the provoker.

more that The usa should know the lesson ,mind your,stop trying to make Iran hurt,because the world will pay and the usa will go back words ,look at the old world.Sad as one who would have liked to see the USA as top dog ,but ye have lost yer soul,now China wins.The ression ye put money and God before people,ye think God and money are the samething ,so sad

Ed, the stupid tough guy "cowboy" talk is exactly what we do NOT need. And please STOP with the Dubbya, Dubbya II comparison. We were attacked then. This nonsense happening now is nothing more than a fight over O-I-L, which in the end equals M-O-N-E-Y. Once AGAIN the US is engaging in STUPIDITY and I'm wondering when it will end and how many more innocent lives will have to be sacrificed for more of those hyphenated words above.

It's not a fight over oil, it's a fight over Iran's nuclear weapons program. And Iran can definitely impact the U.S. by attempting to close the Strait. Either the U.S. bows down to a nuclear-armed, oil-rich Iran, or we do something about it now. Sanctions either work, or they don't. If not, we're back at square one.

Ed Burke - I wouldn't compare to Japan in 1941 - I'd think more like "Dessert Storm". Only problem with that = it may well invite other 'neighbors of Iran to join in.

WAR PIGS

Generals gathered in their masses
just like witches at black masses
evil minds that plot destruction
sorcerers of death's construction
in the fields the bodies burning
as the war machine keeps turning
death and hatred to mankind
poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
they only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait 'till their judgement day comes, yeah!

Now in darkness, world stops turning
ashes were the bodies burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of god has struck the hour
Day of judgement, god is calling
on their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings

OH LORD YEAH!

Japan attacked precisely because of oil. America was choking off Japan's supplies (sanctions) based on Japan's invasion of China.

It's been a long time since war has been fought at sea in ernest. It would be an incredible sight and an unforgettable disaster for all involved. Still, I would do my best to be there.

You could just wait till Iran has nuclear capabilities then take bets on what they will do next! The Iranian people may be Innocent but their rulers are not. so many of you fail to see what is really going on its amazing. this is a very real problem, and oil is as much a tool as missiles are, its a tool they chose to use! because of its importance oil is a weapon that Iran has chosen. if they would stop their BS things would improve but that is not in their agenda. Iran's leaders do not care about their people they just care about their agenda. stop and think! we are victims of Iran'sattitude as much as the people of Iran are. your enemy is not the oil industry its that damn Ayatollah, and his puppet Amanutjob. you now it must be hell for the Iranian people to have to put up with these fools and not be able to do anything to stop the madness in their country!

Ed Burke, I grew up beside of an Eddie Burke and his family.

brent - comparison to Japan in 1941 - yes,our embargo was part of the reason for Japan's attack - but Japan was on a course that would have brought us into conflict eventually anyway.Maybe not right then,but the path they were on would have collided with us at some point.That's why they attacked - to prevent our interference with their chosen course. I wonder if the same thing applies to Iran - if we didn't enact an embargo and hopefully pressure them to stop their nuclear production,would they choose a path toward aggression toward us eventually anyway (but with nuclear weapons)? And I honestly don't know - so I'm seeking an opinion here.

d buck, and isnt it amazing how with all the millions of dollars our broadcast networks spend on nightly news to win ratings for advertizement dollars, we never hear if the uprisings in the streets that happen in Iran, nor do we hear about the Kurdish insergency attacks on iranian police,army in the north of Iran. Why? Because it is not condusive to the political party's agenda that the mainstream media has been backing since the early sixties. It is time for americans to wake up, smell the coffee, open your eyes, and learn about the world and its problems. It is also about time that america offers up a big plate of what some would call Humble Pie, to the people that are not willing to put their money were there mouth is. If you truely love this country, move to a third world area for a year, preferably one that hates americans for being americans. If you agree with them ,stay at the end of the year. If you dont, and realize what is outside our boarders, and willing to pay the ultimate price for your freedom, then come back and practice democracy, vote, be involved. Demand term limits, election reform on both parties.

Between Irans nut job rulers and our nut job leaders, things really don't look very promising.

@2.8: Dude, are you retarded? I'm not going.

Voice of Logic I have been to third world countries so I see your point, the media is a problem in itself, I do have sympathy for people in Iran and elsewhere, but I don't respect their government, or trust in them. and my going back to those dung heaps wont change world events, I have seen enough to know they mean us no good.

Daniel Cooper, great song by Sabbath and lyrics by Geezer, huh? That's why the BBC banned radio stations from playing it. I guess it hit too close to the truth.

Its a fight over oil with a sub-text of nuclear weapons. This is the life the world is heading for. Someone else already said it, just wait till we start running out of water. The only way to stop a war for oil is to stop using it. You think its a travesty that its going to happen, then stop using anything with plastic in it. Stop wasting 40% of everything you buy or use. Buy a fuel efficient car, use mass transit, recycle virtually everything, then maybe we could prevent a war over oil. It won't happen though, the masses can't live without their "things".

You gonna convince the WHOLE world to stop using petroleum? I doubt it.

Tinker - Not really sure that Iran has neighbors that care

No one really knows Katheryn.

What we do know is that America and most of Europe exhausted from the first World War and in the midst of the depression in the 1930's tried to ignore what Japan was doing on the Asian mainland, and what was transpiring in Germany. Eventually, Germany overran most of Europe and Japan the most of the Pacific, both effectively run by dictators bent on imperialism. In attempting to aid our allies and trading partners we found ourselves in a life or death struggle that cost this country nearly half a million lives. At one time shortly after Pearl Harbor, our own military estimated that we would temporarily lose the western third of the U.S. if Japan invaded. The Germans had plans to send bombers over the eastern third once they had conquered Britain. Fortunately we prevailed and neither of these visions came true.

WWII taught us several things.

In the modern industrial age any country with sufficient resources and imperial desires could, if not enslave the world, seriously devastate vast areas of it. Nuclear weapons, along with biological weapons, combined with the current state of rocket and missle technology gaurantees that a WWIII would dwarf the 50-70 million deaths attributed to WWII.

The pace of techological advances has been growing steadily. New inovations can change the military balance of power very rapidly.

Dictators, by their very existence prove that there are human beings who crave power so dearly that they refuse to relinguish it and allow democracy, some if not all dictators are driven by the same forces that made them dictators to expand their power if they see the opportunity. Dictatorships, with control of their populations through a campaign of propaganda and censorship can encite their subjects to support their imperial struggles against an outside antagonist.

At the end of WWII, the U.S. saw the Soviet Union as a formidable opponent who differed from us as to whether democracy or dictatorship would be the model for the world. We clashed with them over the ruins of Germany, each trying to mold our sector into our own image. Trillions of dollars were spent on both sides trying to maintain a parity to insure that neither side would attempt the unthinkable. Between us, we managed to destroy most of Korea, and Vietnam, but for the most part, the rest of the world enjoyed relative peace.

The Soviet Union faded, today the U.S. is the predominant military force in the world. Fortunately, the U.S. has no imperial ambitions. But there are still dangers.

The Middle East is ruled by a multitute of dictators and monarchs(dictators), some are currently placid and considered our allies (Suadi Arabia, Kuwait, United Arab Emerates, Bahrain, Qatar), others are more hostile and have shown emperial ambitions (Iran and Iraq vs each other, Irag vs Kuwait, Syria vs Lebonan). The people of the Middle East are bound together into these countries that do not necessarily represent their own tribal groups, and does put them in close contact and in many cases in subjegation to other tribes, causing great strife. Many of these people live in poverty despite the fact that their region is situated over 2/3rd's of the worlds known oil reserve, producing billions of dollars per year in revenue. Many of these people also ascribe to a medievial interpetation of the Islamic religion and are easily manipulated by those who are able to maintain an authoritarian position within that religion(dictators).

The U.S. has two concerns, sometimes these concerns are in conflict.

Disruption of the oil supply from the middle east would have a very negative effect on the global economy. The U.S. is inextricably connected to the world economy, hence if the world economy suffers, so does the U.S. economy. If the U.S. economy suffers, common U.S. citizens suffer and sitting politicians get voted out.

If some dictator manages to get control of weapons of mass destruction along with the missle technology to use it, it would be impossible to stop him without suffering an unimaginable catastrophe. This puts us right back into the situation at the beginning of WWII.

What if Iran had this capability and decided that it "needed" to assume authority in Iraq to protect the Shiite majority from the Sunni. They warn that any military response from the U.S. will result in the use of nuclear weapons. They also imply that targets may include Tel Aviv, and Riyadh. How would the U.S. respond?
The U.S. does not want to be backed into a corner where millions will be killed if it takes the action that is required.

What if the U.S. doesn't respond? What if we just go back into the isolationist corner we occupied between WWI and WWII?

What if once Iran controls Iraq, it decides to "liberates" Kuwait, joins forces with Syria, begins a campaign against Suadi Arabia, then Barain, UAE, and Quatar. With 25% of the worlds oil production and control over the poulation of the Middle East it uses the enormous wealth of it's oil sales to create a first class military crowned by its nuclear forces. How long did it take for 1930's Germany to accomplish that? Unlike the rational Soviets, that we held at bay with the concept of mutual assured destruction (and vise-versa), these radicals would revil in the idea of a victory where only a handfull of them survived.

At the start of WWII, the U.S. was the pre-eminant industrial power in the world. We built over 6,000 warships and 100,000 warplanes, along with tanks, guns, ammunition, and millions of tons of other war supplies in less than four years. That is why we, along with our allies, won that war. We no longer have that advandage. Our steel industry is a mere shadow of what it was then. Effective weapon systems today are far more complex. It takes 10 years to build a modern aircraft carrier now. We have to stand strong today and prevent what happened in the 1930's from happening again because we no longer have the advantage of calling on our long term industrial ability to match and overcome any enemy.

In WWII we were the ones that the others called when their backs were against the wall. The fact is, even today, in the whole world, we are the ones they would all call. The question is, if WWIII breaks out, who are we going to call? Ghostbusters?

dan42day,

Nice Wikipedia answer:

Wikipedia:General disclaimer, WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY, Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

Why don't you discuss what was occurring before US Entry into WWII. Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito getting their Nations out of the Global Great Depression (people literally starving to death) years before the US. President FDR emulating their successes to get the US out of the Great Depression years later after his New Deal To The American People Failed (US Government spending money did not have to create jobs). The activities of William Randolf Hearst (gypping the Japanese out of the money they paid for Oil and Coal, "Let them stinking yellow bast*rds freeze to death", his big motive money, after Patty Hearst found out about his greed (money at the expense of innocent lives), she willingly started robbing banks with his accounts after being kidnapped by the SLA), persuading President FDR to implement actions against the Japanese (before they invade China for Resources that the US gypped them out of). President FDR's Actions to provoke War, while stating to US Congress, that the US would remain Isolationist. Winston Churchill demanding thru US Ambassador Kennedy that the US Must Enter the War, or England would Fall (why do you think the US entered War against the Germans first instead of the Japanese that attacked us). MacArthur already at the Philippines, US Gunboats at China (sinking of USS Panai), Flying Tigers at China, US Gunboats shooting at Japanese Warships with .50 caliber machineguns, etc..

How about reading these, then under the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) obtain the US War Department Documents, Records, etc. and US Congressional Recordsfrom that time. What also proves these facts, is the Newspapers of that time (most Newspapers still have archieves), I always verify references (unless it is my first hand experience):

At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor by Gordon W. Prange, Donald M. Goldstein and Katherine V. Dillon (Dec 1, 1982)

Day Of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harborby Robert B. Stinnett (May 8, 2001)

After you read the above and verify the references with FOIAWar Department Records, Documents, etc. and US Congressional Records, then read the 1995 US Congressional Investigation and later 1999 US Congress Exhonorations of Admiral Kimmel and General Short.

By the way the current US Military Industrial Complex was originally created by President FDR to get the US out of the Great Depression, just like Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirohito, years before Nationalized all Businesses and Industry at their Nations, is what President FDR did years later. As President FDR realized that US Consumerism would not get the US out of the Great Depression, like the Millions to Billions USDs of the Sales of "War Materials" would. By Nationalizing US Businesses and US Industry (start of the current US Military Defense Industrial Complex), Suspension of US Labor Union Activities, then selling "War Materials" President FDR's "US Military Industrial Complex" got the US out of the Great Depression, 1939, NOT after US Entry into WWII, 1941.

The irony is that it is this US Military Defense Industrial Complex that is currently keeping the US out of a Great Depression, after the 1933 US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression and 1929 to 1939 Great Depression were removed 1999 and 2000. As employing almost a hundred million expensive overpaid US Citizens, and multiple Billion USD Foreign Military Sales (that even after the initial sales, results in more Millions USDs after the Sales as maintenance, training, retrofits, upgrades, repair parts, etc. example: F-15, US Citizens Lockheed Martin at Florida Jobs, Multiple US Repair Parts Suppliers and Manufacturers, etc.).

Sorry all you isolationists, academic idealistic, pacifists, the one thing left that by US Law (US Code) "US Military Must Buy Only US Products, Goods, and Services" that the US still does really well is "War Mongering" and supplying War Materials. And that has been going on ever since President FDR realized that US Consumerism would NOT get the US out of the 1929 to 1939 Great Depression. Reality, how many iPhones would you have to sell to equal just one F-15, and how long would you have to keep your iPhone (having it repaired, repair parts, maintenance (manhours labor), etc. before you even get close to the Millions per year of just one F-15.

Column1948, 2.2 are you trying to remind of us the year Israel became a Country. Throughout history the only Gods which have survived are the Gods of the conquering Countries or cultures. When Egypt was powerful they had Gods without number as did the Greeks and the Romans. The world has only four or five chief Gods today as offered by a like number of surviving cultures. What God do you worship? And more importantly how many nuclear bombs can he bring to the fight. Pakistan will not loan you any of his even though you purport to be brothers of the same cloth, why because he is ringed in on all sides by more arrows than he has in his quiver. Lest you forget how to count fifty nuclear weapons against five or six is a no win situation. Pakistan is not anxious to return to those good old days of camel trading and killing scorpions around the campfire. If you decide you want to take on those infidels by yourself, Allah be with you but, leave Pakistan out of it. You sound like Hitler in the last days of the war as he issued orders to long defeated armies and sought to muster old men and boys to throw at the bulldozers approaching Berlin from all sides. Iran doesn't have one ally it can count on in the Middle East, Syria will give up the ghost if Israel makes a feigned move against it. Wake up 1948, you are in checkmate.

TRUTH--- Medford?

Dave,

My comments didn't come from Wikipedia, they came from the hundreds of books I've read over the last 50 years. Your assertion, however, along with your anti-American rant leave me wondering what left-wing radical sites you get your information from.

I doubt that Patty Hearst had anything to do with WWII as she was not born until nearly a decade after it was over. But then rants often veer off subject.

You mentioned Winston Churchill demanding that we enter the war, again I ask, who do they call when their backs are against the wall? Who will they call when we are no more?

The U.S. may not be perfect, but thanks to it's efforts against world domination by authoritarian dictatorships, you and I can post radically differing points of view without worrying about jack-booted storm troopers kicking down our front doors and dragging us away. Enjoy and appreciate that Dave.

Dave? Are you still there? Dave?

Thanks David and Dan for answering my question. I really felt that you both added to my understanding of the current situation. Actually,I got the impression you were both on the same side - that we can't afford to be isolationists and stand back and do nothing.(we had a little wandering off topic there,but still...) Did I miss something here? I am just starting to read up on WW2 and even with the little bit I have read (I'm still stuck in Burma with Slim and Stillwell! :~/ ) it is amazing how much past events inform current issues.(well,duh on me)On a side note - read those two books,David - enjoyed them both.Don't you love reading two opposite takes on the same event?!It always leads me to reading another book from another angle!Like going down the rabbit hole -it never ends.

Fed Up-3261941

Always the little-guy who cannot take on their oppressive, intrusive and corrupt government... sounds a bit like here in the United States.

If you think you're truly being oppressed, you're welcome to give Iran, North Korea or China a try. Be sure to take notes and let us know how much living in those countries is similarly "oppressive, intrusive and corrupt" as the US. When you're put in a labor camp for 6 months for not publicly crying hard enough during a deceased political figure's day of mourning be sure to remember that you're similarly "oppressed" here in the US.

As a westerner, you don't even begin to know the meaning of the word oppression.

Enron and Elizabeth: What part of a bit didn't you comprehend? Well... If you truly believe in the Three Branches of oligarchy pay more taxes and give up your Social Security...

Just reading some of these post proves to me we are not oppressed! my guess is some of these individuals are just stupid! try posting against your government in China, North Korea, or Iran they will track you down and make you disappear. or possibly just lob of your head.

Mrs. Elizabeth, there is no good guy among all the rulers in this entire world. The ruler of this world is already condemned.

"Why did the heathen rage and the rulers of the earth take counsel together against our Lord and His Messiah?"

No nation on earth maintains its power over its territory except by committing murder.

If you haven't yet found yourself in the crosshairs of their loaded weapons, it's only because you haven't yet had the courage to speak truth to power.

America's leaders are plotting even now as we speak to ship overseas every American citizen who speaks out against the coming new world order. Once they have removed Christians from this soil and spread them among those who hate them elsewhere, and continue bringing in from all over the world every non-Christian they can lay their hands on or bribe, they imagine they will have accomplished what might have been unthinkable only a few years ago.

And they will do all of this within the next few years.

Your "America is the good guy" theme song is out of tune, and the hurdy-gurdy is broken down, its crank-handle turns nothing. The clown that turns the crank is no longer a benevolent uncle--he's a demonic tyrant schooled in the art of murder and treachery.

Wake up, all ye stupid people. How is it that every week you read the words of the prophets that predict all of this and yet you still refuse to see it?

Once, not long ago, America was the world's last stronghold of Christian faith and humane civility, yet now, the teachings of Jesus Christ are under vehement attack all over the world, and increasingly the Christian is demonized and vilified in the public discourse by an increasingly noisy and treacherous mob of anti-Christs; your leaders now routinely murder and torture and you can't even find your voices to so much as peep or chirp because you are all so busy with your vanity mirrors.

"Help Lord, for the tumult of those that rise up against us increases daily."

And we're surrounded by a forest of rotten limbs and broken crutches and leaning, only to stumble, on faithless sissies with blinders on who still think that their church picnics are securely protected by their friendly elected officials, laws, and traditions, seeing none of the wolves crawling all over the place and going in and our among them under sheepskin disguises; the legs of every table are decayed and there is no clean place to sit down and partake of a pure unselfish word, for the land is full of lies and there is no one among us who is valiant for the truth and not stretching out the hand for personal gain.

The pastors are all drunk and in a stupor; useless creatures, loving slumber, like sleeping dogs that cannot bark.

And the blind leading the blind are in such deep darkness that they haven't yet even seen the thief, who has already come and gone and made away with everything; for they stare stupidly, as though in a coma, as they stumble over themselves in the ditch where they have fallen, and haven't even yet noticed that their covering is gone, their very garments are gone, vanished, stolen away from them as they stand there, naked, and in a stupor.

John: Don't scare the kids before bed time.... Many are content with ignorance and fail to comprehend America has lost its way along with the rest of the world.

Huh??????

d buck says

Just reading some of these post proves to me we are not oppressed! my guess is some of these individuals are just stupid! try posting against your government in China, North Korea, or Iran they will track you down and make you disappear. or possibly just lob of your head.

RealOptionsPlease...

So... for speaking negatively about your government here, can I have Gitmo for $200.00 Alex?

So, Fed Up you betray your utter ignorance and shallow disregard for true thought. You really think the U.S. is corrupt, oppressive, etc. etc.? You need to take a vacation in a real corrupt and oppressive country, such as Iran, or any of the Banana Republics of South America or the Middle East. You haven't experienced anything, and the U..S. government is afraid of its own shadow. That's the problem, everything must be politically correct. The oppression is something a few right wing nutcases would like to instill in the U.S. against those who don't belong to their particular church but so far we've held them off. Maybe not so good if 2012 brings Republicans into the White House and majorities in both parts of Congress. Then you'll really learn about opprression, that is if you're not rich, among the 1 percent, or belong to the right wing fundamentalist Taliban or Christian right.

Lil Debbie cakes.... Don't worry about me I will be alright. Keep your own house in order and don't parrot that third world garbage to me. I happen to believe much differently than you and it's okay you don't share my beliefs. Good luck! There is no left or right or in the middle in a 100% failed Democracy. Good night. Keep believing in the lie.... Our government is an incurable cancer. Oppression comes in many forms.... think about economic slavery for starters.

America's economy is collapsing as she has jettisoned her strength through independence and has bound herself to a failed global economy.

Our government leaders no longer adhere to a concept of obeying the spirit of the law, let alone the letter of the law. Most of them have no concept of right and wrong. No concept of what is and is not appropriate. And perhaps no conscience.

These politicians have no respect for the people who elected them. No respect for the American people. No respect for their office. No respect for the Constitution of the United States. No respect for what it means to be entrusted by the people of this nation to serve at the highest capacity. Their only goal is to consolidate more money and power into the hands of the few in order to control and manipulate the many.
(Author Unknown)

Amen Fed Up I totally agree with you

Fed Up-3261941,

The Price Tag Of Politics

As Bob Schieffer explains, Politicians generally listen to the ones who gave them the money to get where they are today and in the end, once they reach Washington their positions are set in stone, thanks to lobbyists and special interest groups.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo

Answer to that is we still have the vote. Vote every SOB out who doesn't have your interest at heart from a local level. We still elect House of Representatives by district in the States, quit sending the same old dirty dishrags back to Congress. Every two years we can get rid of one third of our Senators. You have to tell the newly elected ones what you want them to do or come the next election we will replace you too. No one is going to tell me that in this Country of three hundred million we can't find five hundred and thirty men who can't do the job of governing for the people and by the people. Republicans and Democrats alike and a few Independents to boot. We can assign one to keep the President awake as well.

wikipedia? Sort of like David475776 comments. May or may not be correct?

You realize that electric and steam powered engines derive their energy from burning coal, don't you? I fail to see why they wouldn't have gone with an alternative that had less involved in its acquisition (strip mining vs. drilling and pumping) and also provided a considerable increase in horse power.

Of course you would like to blame somebody, rather than be practical and look toward the future for a solution.

Uhm...

OSUguy. Are you trying to belittle everyone that went to Oregon State? Come on man. Nuclear reactors heat water to create steam. 4th gen reactors use the spent fuel rods from old reactors.

Sunlight can heat water and make steam.

We still use the internal combustion engine because it uses the most profitable fuel source.

Dont worry about it though, oil companies will be bankrupt in less than 15 years, and probably the big coal companies. They have invented a small solar device that sits on top of your house and constantly creates energy. China and the EU are installing them on every house. It wont take long for our bought and paid for government to be forced into change.

This is why genius economists say that capitalism stifles invention, or at least our version of it. Personally I believe we live in a corporate oligarchy. I dont see much that leads me believe we live in a free enterprise system. When a group of energy companies can so easily influence our energy policy it isnt hard to understand why you and I are getting the shaft.

IMO.

Steam engines do not have to burn coal like osuguy stated. They would do just fine on clean natural gas.

American Today,

As desirable as green energy may be, it just isn't possible today. You make some outlandish claims with nothing to back them up. Genius Economists? Who might they be? What logic would bring anyone to the conclusion that Capitalism stifles invention? Open your eyes and look around! Capitalism has brought you everything in site including the computer your typing on. Interesting that China and Europe have a device that they are putting on every roof to constantly generate electricity beyond that laws of physics. Why then is China such a large consumer of oil? How do these devices generate electricity at night? during overcast days? Yes, there are solar cells that do generate electricity, but at anywhere near the capacity to meet the energy needs of a typical home, at a cost less than oil or coal.

I would appreciate a web site so I can check this new invention out it sounds interesting

And "clean natural gas" come from drilling. Something most of the energy elite seem opposed to with fracturing of the shale and the transmission pipelines needed.

Also, short of nuclear, what source of energy gives more BTUs per pound than coal? But, reactors are dangerous; we don't want smokestacks; damming the rivers for hydro power damages the ecology; solar and wind have proven ineffective--so we will have to go dark to please certain groups.

The US is reported to have more than enough oil to take care of ourselves (maybe throw in some help form Canada if we could ever get it piped down here), but we need someone to step up and allow the recovery and refining of our own commodity. Middle Eastern oil is easier to get to, but look at all the crap we have to put up with to get it.

North American oil is the answer, but in true "Jeopardy" fashion, the question is "Do we have the resolve to make it work?"

Actually, ethanol was the original fuel of choice, but Rockefeller needed to sell the gasoline that was a by product of refining heating oil, etc. Rockefeller backed prohibition so that ethnol couldn't be made. Now , the oil companies are waging all out war against ethanol with their billions of dollars being used to spread lies and misinformation, like the ever popular "food vs fuel" propaganda. There are cellulosic ethanol plants producing ethanol from waste material now and many more being built. If you believe anything the oil people and their political hacks say, then you are a fool. Oil people and politicians have a common trait. If their lips are moving , they are lying.

I have an Eco-Drive watch that doesn't need sunlight for 8mos. Maybe we should have Citizen involved in our energy talks. :)

Anthony, references please, or is this the automobile engine that runs on water or the carburetor that gets 150 mpg?

Natural gas is cleaner than coal but it still isn't clean. It still produces greenhouse gasses. Also, as Jim points out, there are all the issues associated with getting the natural gas in a tank so we can use it.

Considering all the known oil resources, there is every reason to believe that we have already passed the half way point in the world's oil supplies. How long do you think it would take us to burn through all of our oil reserves at the current usage rate? Considering the world's current dependence on oil and what may be rapidly diminishing supplies, the OPEC countries are gaining power over the world by the minute!

steam power? you need to build up the steam, that requires time and fuel! Electric more fuel to generate! Hydrogen water and electricity, thats more fuel! plus water, that takes out 1/4 of the US. its about efficiency and those methods don't give you that. we do have a almost endless supply of natural gas, and we can manufacture it from waste, most everything that decomposes gives off methane. I drilled a hole in the ice on a swamp and lit the gas, it burned a nice clean flame for about 20 min. natural fuel being made all around us all the time. look into methane digesters, compress the gas walla. now we solve the landfill problem as well. Did you know Japan burned wood to create smoke to run internal combustion engine's in ww2.

Larry, it's obvious that you know absolutely nothing about chemistry or thermodynamics, or politics, or human nature, or the adult world, for that matter.

No reputable scientist of any political stripe would endorse the drivel that passes for what you apparently think you "know."

Gasoline was the choice when Edison was playing around with lightbulbs and, though it wasn't his invention,also endorsed by Edison and others as the only sensible option for private motor travel when the inventor of the internal combustion engine was beginning to have doubts about his string of failures. Edison told him something to the effect of: "You're on the right track. The math adds up. Keep with it. You'll figure it out and eventually, you will succeed. There's no other sensible alternative." It has to do with the amount of energy you can get from an ounce of gasoline versus an ounce of something else.

Ethanol? You're smoking rubber shoeleather, dude. There's more water in ethanol than there is fuel. Or if otherwise, then there is enough water in there to put a big damper on your plans in any case. There is nothing but fuel in gasoline. Not true of ethanol, in which a large portion of the molecule is ALREADY oxidized.

Try studying some of that stuff they tried to teach you in school before you shoot off your mouth about conspiracy theories that make no sense even to conspiritors.

Ethanol costs more energy to produce than it gives back in an engine in many cases. It depends on how you grow it, harvest it, and distill it. So you think we should be jacking up the price of food (not a lie, Larry, it's the truth) so that we can burn fuel oil to distill ethanol in order to make an inferior fuel? (You do know that ethanol has to be DISTILLED, don't you? OH, you DON'T? But of course not. Why am I not surprised?) Why don't we just burn the fuel oil? Oh, duh! That's what we ARE doing!

It's called gasoline.

Oh, I keep forgetting. You're of that generation that only reads the comic books that Michael Moore and his ilk write for you.

It makes it easier for him to turn you and your friends into a mindless mob wreaking havoc and destruction so that the taskmasters of the New World Order don't have to get their hands dirty destroying whatever they don't yet control in order to turn you into a puppet-slave to feed their faces for them. So go get angry because of GREED! Yeah, that's what will get you going. As if you weren't already angry over your own failures, and just as greedy as everyone else.

But the greed you should be worried about is not the greed of the free market, but the greed of the Michael Moore's and the rest of the homosexual communist animals who want not only all your money, but all your life and all your blood and all your children (when you grow up and get a bit older, I suspect) and all your soul, and when you get right down to it, all your youknowwhat, too. Something you DON'T know, Larry, is that some of the greediest "capitalists" in the world are actually communists working for the international communist party precisely so that you will hate them for what you think them to be and be impatient to destroy the world in order to make it a "better" place.

People who think the way you do are just cannon fodder for the very people you fancy yourself to believe in.

You are deceived. And if you destroy things to vent your anger at what you falsely believe to be the cause of your anger, then you will be the evil one. Not the target of your anger--but you . . .

will be the one doing evil

like a trained monkey.

John- Wow, what a rant. You are an example of what I was talking about. Thanks for being such an outstanding example.

Wow what a group of geniuses we have on newsvine, maybe you should all get together and change the world with your vast skills and knowledge. I guess it is easier to just blame and point fingers at others rather than actually contribute anything of value.

Just a thought, but this forum was about a reporter's story about how sanctions are affecting the ordinary man living in the Hormuz region of Iran, wasn't it?

Why do people insult other people opinions? Surely, there are some idiots here. But most of the posts have some logical thought gone in to them, valid points made, but still a lot of insulting going on here.

Anyway, i will make my contribution here. Somewhere in this world, there is a man reading all these posts, and he's reporting back to his superior. You know what he is saying? He is saying that America can not win a war. His leader asks him why America can not win a war? He tells his leader because Americans are weak and divided. How can a nation win a war when it's citizens do nothing but be combative with their own, hurl insults at their fellow countrymen, belittle each other like it's a everyday thing...and you know what? It is a everyday thing here. I read these sites all the time and it amazes me how rude you are to each other. Do you feel that you can say anything because you're sitting comfortably in front of a computer monitor and don't have to fear a direct confrontation? Is that what it is?

As i said, just a thought on my part...but more constructive criticism accomplishes more than just ignorant criticism....just sayin'!

osuguy? Hate to break it to you, but steam power has much more torque and horsepower than gas, diesel, or electric. To this day they haven't manufactured a locomotive that could out power a single union pacific "Big Boy" steam locomotive. Check youtube sometime for steam tractors...you'll see an antique steam tractor outpulling two comparably sized modern diesel tractors, lol

of course clean energy is good electric cars an all but, seriously you cant go far it would slow america down commerce (trucking) peoples travels also and you know america will not slow down for nothing. heck if a plane leaves 3 minutes late people are in a up roar over it. if the computer takes 1 minute to download people complain and say why so long. with all the stopping involved to recharge like on long trips and such we americans sadly cant handle the time needed. not to mention who can buy these cars with the economy or even before our colapse. surely not the single mother raising a few kids or a single father for that matter. so the people who need the help the most will not be able to afford it and if you could say afford to spend say 20 to 30 or so thousand then obviously gas price is not your immediate problem.

those who say america is oppresive obviously never traveled abroad. i have lost faith in this country and no longer vote for it just doesnt matter anymore. the president as well as our congress just do not care. it is only about money. the fore fathers would cringe at us now.

that being said i still absolutely love this country and it is still the best there is. i dont not ever hear anyone say "i want to live the mexican or iraqi or saudi or any other country dream. its always the american dream .god bless all those who serve or have served you are my hero and am forever greatfull.

also,,, a naval war with iran would be quick untill our government backs out like always. we would lose a ship or 3 but would sink everyone of theirs and leave them nothing but a conoe and probably within a day or two.

it is good though to know that we can voice our opinions as we wish in this free country but, as i say..

HEY GOD! ANY GOD IF YOU ARE UP THERE, YOU CAN COME BACK DOWN NOW, THIS WORLD IS SO READY FOR YOU. WE ARE READY FOR YOU...HELLO?

by the time iran realizes that they have put their foot in their mouth....the desert will be red glass pcs. everywhere! wake up iran...you can not and will not sink any ships from the u.s. and your planes are useless in burning pcs, on the tarmac...that goes for russia too!!-/

prices in iran go up because america and the EU think they have some right to exclude legitimate iranian business's from accessing global markets.

its only natural that if there are less markets to access prices increase along with inflation. its not like iran sets the value of its currency vs usd, the markets do.

Of course the problems with Iran and the poor fishmonger are due only to the same failed practices of the other failed muslim states. When you have a despicable, corrupt, hate filled religious culture in control of the goverment it is the people who suffer. Yet, these same people who are so foolishly indentured to the hate filled culture of islam put the culture there and keep it there.

Let the straits be closed, let them suffer and rot until they overthrow the islamic culture that is the ruin of every state.....in fact let them demonstrate that there is a single islamic dominated state/country that is anything but a hideous, failed, corrupt disaster.

BTW...the US and all the world could easily and quickly learn to live without the oil from this region...I doubt that many people know this, but the US in this last year actually became a net exporter of oil...

The only way to regain our American Freedom is to put a strangle hold on our goverment, somewhere along the line to many started beleiving the crap Washington feeds us. I call those part time Americans city sheep. They were never taught to be American just Land of the free as long as you do as your told

It's not even a matter of believing but just people not caring, not watching, not paying any attention at all. With our actions we have taught our children to focus on what they want to the exclusion of all else. A video game is as, or more so, real as reality. Some country causes a problem? Push a button and blow it up. People starving in Africa? What's an Africa? Don't laugh, a significant number of students have no idea where their home state is, never mind other continents. Not enough food in the U.S.? Just go to the local junk food emporium and stuff yourself. This at a time when people are spending thousands of dollars for virtual 'items' that don't even actually exist. We have lost touch with true reality and are becoming lost in a universe that we have created out of our own short sightedness, greed and loss of basic common sense. Iran doesn't have to attack us, we will destroy ourselves if we don't wake up, take back control of our lives and our country and get a grip on reality.

Along for the ride — the Armed Forces are currently being drawn down, draft will only happen if Mass causulties occur. For example a nuclear device being set off around a heavly populated US city.

The strait of hormuz's navigable water is only 2 miles wide and most of that 2 miles is within Iranian waters.

By international law, no one can restrict freedom of navigation in the Strait of Hormuz. That would be the same as the U.S. trying to close off the Gulf of Mexico or the Florida Straits.

typical warmonger... amazing how you think its patriotic to kill people for oil.

we haven't fought a war for freedom since 1941.

He's right about one thing: WE are the BEST at blowing *** up!

Right... The USA has done so well in Vietnam, Somalia, Afganistan, and Iraq (v.2)...

Grow up, it is NOT the 1940's anymore. Do really think China will just sit idle and let the US invade Iran? The missle that Iran launched a few weeks ago and claimed that it was their scientists that invented it, what do you think the odds are that China actually had something to do with it's developement? What do you think the odds are China might actually be looking for a "Proxy War" with the US to flex it's muscle and "test" their newest war technology?

A war there can ONLY end up badly for ALL participants, you strike me as the type of guy that probably bullied other kids when you were growing up because it's what your father did and your father's father... AND you thought you had the right to do so because you were "bigger" than they were. Sad...

I don't understand... Some of you are actually content with letting Iran cut off $1.7 billion worth of crucial daily commerce just to prove that they've got balls? You're okay with a nation that would use such tactics becoming a nuclear power?

Are you people children living in some sort of Dr. Suess book?

War isn't a pleasant solution, but when it's the only one, it's the only one. Either put them back into the stone age, or be ready for them to bring about global war.

@Selfmade

I dont understand... you are actually willing for american boys to die in a war for 1.7 billion a day of ... oil?

You actually think iran would actually use a WMD risking the loss of power and their regime? How can you be so simple?

Our government spends $10.96 billion a day and you want to go to war over 1.7 billion of commerce for other countries?

Why would China want anyone to attack the U.S. They have a lot invested in the U.S. Any real war and that investment would go down the tubes very quickly.

@Brendan-4

Do you Honestly think they wont? How could you honestly think Iran wouldn't use WMD's considering the facts of how many times their mad puppet has called for the destruction if Israel and denied the Hollocaust yet i'm the war monger? Lulz. Some of you need to step off the coolaid.

War is inevitable due to Iran playing into the cards, Not wanting to actually be truthful and showing they don't give a @!$%# makes them an unstable country unsuitable for Nuclear Arms.

but yea! sure I'm the warmonger...

@Squall

Lol... typical idiot warmonger... we started the whole conflict with the blockade of our warships out in the gulf. who the hell are we to police the straight of hormuz? is there some kind of american territory or state that we don't know about over there?

War is inevitable because we push them to war with our actions. how could you be so simple in not seeing that?

who cares about israel? people call for the distruction of the USA daily but you don't see americans saying " BOMB THEM!@!@!!"

diplomacy works, bombing people into submition doesnt.

you're a warmonger.

heh... Iran doesn't think that far, they think their buyers would be pissed off at the U.S.

I beg to differ. This is definitely painting Iran as the bad guys and not as the innocent being unfairly oppressed. Sense their all "Eh screw you guys! We'll keep enriching! haha!"

Katheryn,

Iran is the local big boy when if comes to military forces. None of the other oil producing countries have the military capability to make that much of a difference. That is why the US and other NATO navies would have to bear the brunt of military action.

I didn't realize that,thank you. It brings up a whole lot of other questions. I wish I had more of a background on this.

Unfortunately for him, the U.S has made good on their "Saber rattling" and threats so far in the past 12yrs...

Can you say the same for Iran?

Iran has done this before: twice in 1988, 3 times in 2008. There won't be a war with Iran because I do not

think China would support Iran. If, and it's a Big If, Russia sticks with China, it's all over, and it's a whole

new ballgame!

Russia would side with Iran. They have coveted the Persian Gulf for centuries(empirical ambitions) and having an excuse to interject themselves in the region is what they desire.

China has not stopped buying Iranian oil - they told Iran they want a better deal to buy it!Smart Chaina,eh?

Phillis- India and China are going to start paying for oil in gold instead of dollars, completely bypassing the embargo. this was just announced today. the only way the sanctions can work is if oil is denominated in Dollars. cut off access to the global banking network and you have no way to cash in your dollars or buy anything with them. if they sell oil in exchange for gold then theres nothing anybody can do short of physically stopping oil tankers from leaving iranian waters. since those tankers would likely be flagged under Indian or Chinese flags. how do you think China will react to thier vessels being boarded and impeded in any way by the US or NATO?

http://www.debka.com/article/21673/

Highly doubt Russia wants any part of this conflict.

Considering how much "Hillary Clinton" had on Russian protests... I don't really see them as wanting to do Iran's bidding.

Russia would most likely interject themselves into any Persian Gulf conflict. The area falls within their "sphere of influence" and they still hold empirical ambitions.

brent - your take on Russian designs is interesting.I had not thought of that.So are both China and Russia patrons of Iran?

Russia has treaties with the U.S. and the U.N. they won't screw with anyone unless it gets within one country from them.

Russia has always coveted a sea route into the Indian Ocean. Some saber-rattling occured between the U.S. and U.S.S.R. between the ouster of the Shah and the return of Ayatollah Khomeini. America supported the Shah(and even installed him into power) purely as a foil to thwart Soviet designs for a satellite-controlled Iran. The KGB had a hand in all the revolutionary fervor happening during the last half of the 1970's. They were A component. I read a book on this some years ago and cannot remember all the names or the exact timeline, but they definately helped instigate the Revolution in a way.

Master Bob, Russia has always been notorious for "re-arranging" terms of treaties to their own benefit. They're trying to re-assert control of their break-away republics.

Kathryn, I'm not sure the extent of Russian/Iranian relations at this time. I am reasonably sure China has favorable trade terms with Iran. I also have a hypothesis about our "downed" stealth aircraft a couple months back. The circuitry and micro-processors constituted in the technology are produced in China. Four-five months ago, an article reported a virus infecting the software loaded into these stealth systems. It's claimed this virus was "benign," but could it have allowed China access to our defense system? Could China have traded hacking codes to Iran for the price of say..........a few tankers of crude oil?

settersperch

Liberals, don't worry, you can blame the next repub president for your next war. Even if Iran closes the strait, all Odumbo will do is talk about it until he gone in the election.

Come Jan.2013, the repub President will make sure that the only way to see the Iranian navy will be with a glass bottom boat.

You seem to lead a pretty active fantasy life. Good for you. I guess it's easier than facing reality when it isn't going your way.

Iran tries anything and Obama actually pulls the trigger, the liberals who complain about Bush's "oil war"..their term, not mine..would be nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

Wrong. Obama is already fixing things for his next tern beginning in 2012. Better than the idiot boy Santorum,, the zombie Romney and gashead Gingrich, all three of whom scare me. Yoiu think things are bad now? Wait until a Republican president gets in and see the 1 percent get even richer, and pay even less taxes while we who are still left in the middle class take on two o r three jobs to support a family just like the working poor of only a few yeaers back. Be careful what you wish for, bozo. If you get it, God help us all.

SQWAAAAK!! We are 99%!! SQWAAAK!!

lil' debbie want a cracker?

Brent,

Are you upset because Lil' Debbie speaks the truth, or that she doesn't use her own phrase for it? Either way, greeeeeat comeback, lol...NOT

http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

Hardly 70%

No we don't get more than 70% of our oil from Canada....wth!! Do you not know how to do research??? Here, let me save you the time and energy lazy American!!

Like the United States, China receives most of its imports from Saudi Arabia,
followed by Iran, Venezuela, and the Sudan

How much oil is left, specifically in Saudi Arabia…Ghawar is the mega-giant, which
has an oil field 174 miles long and 16-20 miles wide

The Royal Family in Saudi Arabia has clamped down on foreign inspections of both
oil wells and tankers

The House of Saud has been a friend and an ally to the United States for more than
60 years (our main supplier of cheap oil)..one of the few countries in the
Middle East that supports the United States’ and other countries war against
terrorism

But now the question becomes are the Sauds really just wolves passing in sheep's clothing!! If so, we are in for one hell of another war...war this time!!!

Candy,

Do the research, or look at the link I posted. Canada is our number one supplier. Nowhere near 70% but they are #1.

Canada actually supplies a lot more than Saudi Arabia. The most interesting part is Mexico is a close 3rd behind Saudi Arabia.

In this report Saudi Arabia has fallen behind Mexico.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/100726/top-7-us-oil-importers

Don't forget hugo chavez's venezuela. the guy who calls us the devil and likes hanging out with Iran's leader

These are the numbers for the top five sources of oil imported into the U.S. as of 2010:

Canada 25%

Saudi Arabia 12%

Nigeria 11%

Venezuela 10%

Mexico 9%

And I heard it was Canada and Mexico that were our two biggest suppliers - at any rate, I think they say the US gets 50% -75% of it's oil from the western hemisphere -so maybe the rest is from Middle East.

Based on the numbers in the EIA link, about 18% of the oil purchased by the US comes from countries that could be affected by closing the Straits. Of course, that assumes that Saudi Arabia could not shift their exports to the Red Sea ports. The remaining 82% comes from countries whose shipping routes do not pass through the Middle East at all.

By Continent

North America (Canada and Mexico) 39%

South America (Venezuela, Columbia, Ecuador, Virgin Islands, Brazil and Aruba) 21%

Africa (Nigeria, Angola and Algeria) 16%

Russia 6%

Okay,CDN - you made me actually go get my Atlas. I know,my lack of knowledge concerning geography is sad,but I'm actually learning something. Looking at the atlas,it looks like the only country that really has no other potential pathway other than the Straits of Hormuz is poor, little Kuwait.(well,not poor...) Good heavens,didn't we go down this path with Kuwait once before!?

By putting sanctions on the Iranian economy, you use the pressure of the average people's suffering against their government. Worked that way since the days of the Greek city-states. Probably longer. It's nothing new.

Not saying it's right or wrong. Just that's how it's designed to work.

perhaps you'd like the good honest Iranians nuking your home town???

I say let the idoits close the strait. I have a strange feeling it won't be only us bombing them back to the stone-age but a few other countries as well. May hurt the oil industry for a short period of time and our fuel prices but heh what else is new......big oil has been making money off everyone for a long time. I'm more worried about the fact that they lied to the UN inspectors and now won't let anyone in to inspect they're nuclear program yet insist that its for peace. I call bull@!$%# and I say let the Bomb fall......didn't they learn anything from they're neighbor Iraq? ya piss in Uncle Sam's Wheaties and not only will he through them back in your face he'll put a .44 mag in your mouth and pull the trigger.....

Spouting Fire .You are such a moron.I hope if we have another conflict you will be the first to go and defend our arrogant policies-right in the line of fire.Even though I don't like republican policies,Ron Paul makes the most sense in the debates when it comes to foreign policy. One day we will have a real disaster and then we'll see how important it is to be more humble.Our mentality is one of greed,vulturism and and support the 1%.Wake up people.